New ET5 and ARTsa burn in question

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Bill Stevenson
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New ET5 and ARTsa burn in question

Post by Bill Stevenson »

I have a new ET5 and ARTsa and have read repeatedly that these units need a considerable amount of time to sound their best. Is that true? They sound pretty good to me already. What change might I expect to hear? Also, on another forum there was a recent discussion about alternative tubes for the ET5. Has anyone tried other tubes? What type and what change occurred? Thanks in advance for your insight.

Bill
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Re: New ET5 and ARTsa burn in question

Post by joeinid »

Hi Bill,

Congratulations again on a fine choice in gear. I had an ET-5 and I am on my second GAT. They can take up to 600 hours to break in. I know it sounds crazy but it's true. I remember one night on my GAT, listening to music and trying to read a magazine. I could not keep my attention on the magazine but kept looking up and around the room and even off to my left or right. The sound stage opens up, everything gets a little sweeter, the sound stage gets deeper and more layered with more air around everything. It's hard to explain but you will realize it. Same with the ARTsa. I have the monos and one night it will be different and soooooo much better. Enjoy the ride.
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Re: New ET5 and ARTsa burn in question

Post by Bill Stevenson »

Thanks for taking time to respond.
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Re: New ET5 and ARTsa burn in question

Post by joeinid »

My pleasure. We'd love an update to what you are hearing. I bet it's wonderful. :)
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Re: New ET5 and ARTsa burn in question

Post by Big Dog RJ »

G'day Bill,

Nice to hear from another c-j enthusiast, who must be a true audiophile!

In my experience with c-j, having owned their products since the 80's, like most high-end audio gear, they do take a while to settle in nicely. Mainly because they use high quality components, and sound better the longer it plays.
Having said that, they do sound pretty good straight out of the box, and fantastic after a few hundred hours. Since the ET5 and ARTsa that you have are vacuum tube designs, they do require a certain amount of time to sound their best. Some may sound excellent after 100 hours approx., others may take longer...

Another important factor I have learnt along the way is that it also depends on your loudspeakers, cable and interconnects, including each power cord, all these items add burn-in time, not just the amplification. To add to this, even the room factor plays an important role in the overall ambience, and soundstage that your loudspeakers are capable of delivering.

I know so many "audiophiles" (including myself for one to blame) who are after that extraordinary sound but somehow are never satisfied with what their getting or haven't quite achieved it as yet... As a result they are not getting what the system is fully capable of, hence keep trying different things, new gear, etc. without addressing some basic factors such as, the room, "cables dress", system component placement, seating/listening position, correct/recommended loudspeaker placement and so on...

I found that investigating some of these basic factors actually made a dramatic improvement! This doesn't happen quickly, it will take some time to get your whole system working in synergy. This may take a few months, to a few years! I believe there really isn't an actual so called burn-in time. However, as time goes by, especially with c-j gear, you will notice improvements in the soundstage and resolution. The full 3-D effect of the soundstage will be clearer, and the subtle nuances, details and transients will just start to flow without having to turn up the level for that "enveloping" sound.

When this all happens you will notice it straight away, and then from marginal there will be dramatic improvements in the overall sound to the point as the system is playing it will sound so fantastic you wouldn't feel like turning it off or leaving the house! And then of course after a few years the tubes need to be changed! Ah that dam vacuum tube gear, you got to love it just when things were settling in...

Cheers and enjoy that special c-j sound!
By the way, what loudspeakers are you using?
RJ
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Re: New ET5 and ARTsa burn in question

Post by Bill Stevenson »

To answer your questions, my speakers are Sony SS-AR2, selected after auditioning Martin Logan Montis, B&W 802 and 800D, and Wilson's full range. The Sony speakers really flatter the human voice and that was the overall deciding factor for me. In a bigger room than mine, the B&W 800D perhaps would have been a better choice. All of these speakers have much to commend them, they all are great. Amplification came next and the dealer loaned me CJ tube stuff and PS Audio transistor stuff to take home. We also listened to Krell at the store. I have never owned tube equipment before, but the tube electronics make the performers sound like they are right in the room in a way that is unique. I did listen to ARC and VTL, too, but briefly. All of this stuff sounded good and I am sure any of it would be wonderful. Then my wife and I had occasion to be in the Washington DC area and took advantage of the opportunity to visit CJ. They were very accommodating and the combination of my dealer and the people at CJ made the decision an easy one. People buy from people they trust, it is as simple as that.

In terms of what I am hearing, the tone balance and overall sound I would call neutral. No appreciable difference between the CJ and the PS Audio, which is a class D transistor amp. Both sound clean, smooth, with extended highs. The Sony speakers have a -3 db cutoff at 43 Hz so the theoretical bass advantage that the transistor amp might have is not apparent in my system. If anything the CJ might sound a bit fuller in the bass. I have a recording of Maria Muldaur singing "Fever" that has a lot of sibilance in it and here my music loving cat Ben, reacts equally to her very high pitched voicing as it ascends beyond my hearing range using either amp. So I think it is fair to say that the two amps are equal on the highs, which is to say just awesome. Where the CJ trumps the PS Audio is that Maria, or most any other performer, really sounds like they are close enough to reach out and touch with the former, but are not as palpable with the latter. For me, this difference makes the whole system worth the price of admission. Last night I was listening to the Miles Davis/Gil Evans collaboration on Porgy and Bess and heard Miles sounding like he was behind the orchestra at times. He used to turn his back on the audience and play facing the back of the stage at times. I saw him do this live many times. Some people objected to this habit and thought he was being disrespectful of his audience, but after last night I wonder if he was doing his facing back thing for a sound effect. I have listened to this recording probably a hundred times over the years and never noticed this before. This is not the first time I have listened to familiar material on this system and heard things on the recording that I had never noticed before.

I am enjoying the sound in any event.

Regards,

Bill
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Re: New ET5 and ARTsa burn in question

Post by Big Dog RJ »

G'day Bill,

Ok, so you've got the Sony speakers. Yes, I can understand why you would prefer these over the ones you've auditioned. These are true high-end loudspeakers that took a very long time in the making. The chaps at sony research did numerous pain staking experiments before finalizing its design, and ended up with a real state of the art speaker system! There are many who have not heard this system, only if they did. ..and they do cost quite a bit. That special mid range along with smooth highs and bass, to me what I refer to a well balanced speaker, is what makes the Sony special. Similarly, I have Quads (electrostas) top notch midrange and fantastic sound stage with c-j amplification. Once you get used to that you will not change no matter what... Vocals, jazz, blues, from Miles Davis, Cassandra, Keb Mo to the legendary Nat King Cole & Frank Sinatra all would sound full of life with palpable realism! When your system gets this right, you know that it just sounds right!

Enjoy mate and have good one!
Cheers, RJ
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Re: New ET5 and ARTsa burn in question

Post by Bill Stevenson »

Hi RJ,

It would seem that we have similar tastes in music as well as equipment. A very good friend of mine years ago was fixated (that is the only word to describe it) on the original Quad speakers. At that time I was similarly in love with the sound of a pair of biamped Bozak Concert Grands. Still we spent many happy hours listening to music together on either system. The most important thing for both of us was the music. This was a long time ago.

Regards,

Bill
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Re: New ET5 and ARTsa burn in question

Post by Big Dog RJ »

G'day Bill,

Yes, Bozak Concert Grands and the original Quad ESL63's are both classics! After all as you stated, they were designed to bring out the best in music.
Very glad that you are enjoying your system and the music most of all. The overall sound will improve as time goes by with your c-j amps, and that sound stage will keep getting better and better to the point it will be spectacular! Keep a close eye on the tubes, especially the bias with minor adjustments from time to time.
Enjoy the music! Cheers,
RJ
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Re: New ET5 and ARTsa burn in question

Post by Bill Stevenson »

The is a note of follow-up to this thread. As this is written, the ET5 and ARTsa have over 500 hours on them. They sound wonderful, but I can't say with any assurance that they sound better than they did when I first put them into service. Jeff at C-J told me that both units were burned in for 100 hours before being shipped, so it may be that they were already pretty well optimized when I got them. It may be too, that my 66 year old ears just aren't able to pick up the difference. FWIW, a friend helped me to do a single blind test to compare the C-J sound with the PS Audio sound. We put the speakers in an adjacent room so I could not see the amps or my friend. We level matched the output to within 0.1 db for both amplifier systems (note: the PS Audio is a Class D, control amp). Anyway, there was a clear and identifiable difference in favor of the C-J sound (10 tests, 9 correct picks of C-J over PS-A and one "no difference"). Performers sound like they are right in the room with the C-J, there is an ease of delivery, more open rather than constricted. Is it a huge difference/worth the investment? For me the answer is an emphatic yes!
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