Where do you shop your replacement tubes?

[roger]

Hey Big Dog RJ - I got an ART150 last month

ART150! Oh nice one mate. SOTA at its finest.
Very well done, cheers and enjoy.
Best, RJ

Thanks! The amp is still breaking in... not too many hours has been put into it yet and it improves a little every other 10 hours added.

[roger]

Roger, congratulations on the ART 150. Easily one of the best stereo amps in current production.

I would caution you against tube swapping when the amp is only one month old. This amplifier takes a very long time to break in. While I am aware that there are many who don't believe in break in, I find how the sound changes over time to be audible. You will think that the amp has settled in after about 300 hours but you are not fully there yet. IMHO at least 1000 hours of use causes an amazing transformation. The warmness you are trying to achieve by changing the input tubes will happen dramatically over time. Since I don't recommend leaving the amp on when unattended this may take a full year listening a little bit each day. Your patience will be rewarded.

bear - I do believe in break in and this is indeed a valuable advice! I do notice subtle changes incrementally and I should hold off a bit about the pretube rolling until the amp is settled.

[roger]

Hola Roger,
Agreed 100% with Bear. His advise is the best! You should give time to your new power amp. You can´t imagine the big transformation for good it is going to happen when you hit the 300 hours, and another transformation for good when hits the 400 hours.

Read twice the Bear's recommendations.

Happy listening!

Indeed roberto. I will hold off the pre drive and only get the power tubes.

[roger]

Tube order update:

The Mullards arrived on Mon, safe & sound. Very well packed. I hadn't had the chance to try them out as yet until just now...
All is well with these new Mullards and as usual sound superb on the monoblocks. I have not noticed any significant differences between the CJ ordered Mullards and these ones, comparing side by side, can't pinpoint any differences.

The only major thing I could harp on about, was the extra cost paid through Tubestore, it was in fact a fair amount higher than CJ's order, about $70 more to have the package shipped from the US direct to my door in Aus via FedEx shipping, now that was a bit costly. I'm glad the tubes have arrived in record time, comparing that to ordering through my CJ importer, which sometimes takes close to a month!

However, their charges are very reasonable and so patience is the virtue there... In that case I'll just stick with CJ. OTH Tube Depot or Upscale Audio may have been slightly less but none of them carried this particular Mullard M8080 / 6C4 premium tube.

CJ also has plenty of NOS as well, so might as well just stick with them. Cheers to all and keep those tunes playing! RJ

Thanks for the update!

[Big Dog RJ]

OK now it's been over 24hrs play time since the tubes arrived and I can confirm a few things:
These particular Mullards are extremely quiet, zero noise, hiss, farts etc. Nothing whatsoever.
I cannot identify any significant differences between the CJs Mullards and these but they do sound superb!
The matching done prior to shipment is perfectly balanced.

CJ's Mullards are very good high quality, no doubt. However, these ones from TubeStore are equally superb and I can't fault them in any way whatsoever. They're also affordable and arrive in record time straight to your door.

Well, it looks like I've found a tube supplier!
There's another chap here in Melb who was quite close to where I previously lived. He's currently using all ARC Ref 250se monoblocks and some serious gear. He's been ordering from TubeStore for quite a while and never had any problems. So that's another confirmation from our end.
Cheers to tubes and enjoy the wonderful soul they deliver. Best, RJ

[roger]

Thanks a lot for your update Big Dog RJ! It's nice that you confirmed your choice of tube supplier is reliable. I just got a quote for a set of tubes(pre and power) from CJ and I was kind of shocked on their quote compared to tube depot and tube stores.

OK now it's been over 24hrs play time since the tubes arrived and I can confirm a few things:
These particular Mullards are extremely quiet, zero noise, hiss, farts etc. Nothing whatsoever.
I cannot identify any significant differences between the CJs Mullards and these but they do sound superb!
The matching done prior to shipment is perfectly balanced.

CJ's Mullards are very good high quality, no doubt. However, these ones from TubeStore are equally superb and I can't fault them in any way whatsoever. They're also affordable and arrive in record time straight to your door.

Well, it looks like I've found a tube supplier!
There's another chap here in Melb who was quite close to where I previously lived. He's currently using all ARC Ref 250se monoblocks and some serious gear. He's been ordering from TubeStore for quite a while and never had any problems. So that's another confirmation from our end.
Cheers to tubes and enjoy the wonderful soul they deliver. Best, RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

No worries mate, your welcome.

In fact, I've come across two other chaps located in Melbourne, who have been purchasing all their tubes from The-TubeStore for over a decade with no issues. Only on one occasion, a Mullard failed within a week and The TubeStore replaced it promptly at no extra charge. They also offered a full explanation of what might have gone wrong... During the testing and matching process, all parameters were perfect - within 1% tolerance for matching a quad set of Mullards. Since these are rare NOS tubes, they can go bad unexpectedly, keeping in mind that the year of production was 1968! Go figure!

So a newer production run of that tube was sent as a replacement, however it wasn't a special "NOS" tube, hence didn't quite have the same sonic signature as the original NOS Mullards. BTW the amplifier he's using is one amplifier that I nearly bought but only had second thoughts since it would struggle a tad bit to drive CLX's full range. But the sound of this particular amp is unlike anything I've heard to date!

The Kondo Audio Note - Overture, 32w/ch pure Class A integrated amp. It has 5 transformers, two per channel and another 1 as the mains. It's an absolute work of art! And of course comes at a pretty penny - 20 grand just for an integrated! It's no ordinary integrated!
Sorry got a bit carried away there...

Anyway, the tubes he ordered were the Mullard NOS special edition EL34's. Luckily he placed an order for two quad sets, so at least he's got a fully matched set of four output tubes operating perfectly, with three remaining as back ups and the odd one out, being the newer version.

I have always ordered my entire tube replacement sets from CJ but since lately, not sure if it's got something to do with new ownership, their tube replacements have become awfully expensive. I don't see any point in paying such premiums when the tube has failed on three different occasions, all within a month!

That's the one and only reason why I decided to venture elsewhere, otherwise I would have just stuck with CJ.
Will let you know once I plan to order the output tubes as well, because pricing is far more reasonable compared side by side. I truly hope that one day CJ would consider reducing their prices or least should consider a "loyalty discount for CJ owner's," especially for owners who have been using CJ gear for decades!
I'm not willing to unnecessarily spend on replacement tubes just because... Every other tube supplier carries out the same exact burn-in and matching process, so I cannot understand why the high price variance...

Just my 50cts worth! Cheers and all the best
RJ

[roger]

Very well said RJ! I will definitely give the tube store a try. I just don't think it's justified for that kind of price difference between cj and other reputable tube supplier given that the matching and burn on process nearly identical. I like cj but honestly hope they will reconsider their pricing structure on the replacement tubes. If they can come up with competitive pricing on the tubes it is a win-win for them and their customers.

No worries mate, your welcome.

In fact, I've come across two other chaps located in Melbourne, who have been purchasing all their tubes from The-TubeStore for over a decade with no issues. Only on one occasion, a Mullard failed within a week and The TubeStore replaced it promptly at no extra charge. They also offered a full explanation of what might have gone wrong... During the testing and matching process, all parameters were perfect - within 1% tolerance for matching a quad set of Mullards. Since these are rare NOS tubes, they can go bad unexpectedly, keeping in mind that the year of production was 1968! Go figure!

So a newer production run of that tube was sent as a replacement, however it wasn't a special "NOS" tube, hence didn't quite have the same sonic signature as the original NOS Mullards. BTW the amplifier he's using is one amplifier that I nearly bought but only had second thoughts since it would struggle a tad bit to drive CLX's full range. But the sound of this particular amp is unlike anything I've heard to date!

The Kondo Audio Note - Overture, 32w/ch pure Class A integrated amp. It has 5 transformers, two per channel and another 1 as the mains. It's an absolute work of art! And of course comes at a pretty penny - 20 grand just for an integrated! It's no ordinary integrated!
Sorry got a bit carried away there...

Anyway, the tubes he ordered were the Mullard NOS special edition EL34's. Luckily he placed an order for two quad sets, so at least he's got a fully matched set of four output tubes operating perfectly, with three remaining as back ups and the odd one out, being the newer version.

I have always ordered my entire tube replacement sets from CJ but since lately, not sure if it's got something to do with new ownership, their tube replacements have become awfully expensive. I don't see any point in paying such premiums when the tube has failed on three different occasions, all within a month!

That's the one and only reason why I decided to venture elsewhere, otherwise I would have just stuck with CJ.
Will let you know once I plan to order the output tubes as well, because pricing is far more reasonable compared side by side. I truly hope that one day CJ would consider reducing their prices or least should consider a "loyalty discount for CJ owner's," especially for owners who have been using CJ gear for decades!
I'm not willing to unnecessarily spend on replacement tubes just because... Every other tube supplier carries out the same exact burn-in and matching process, so I cannot understand why the high price variance...

Just my 50cts worth! Cheers and all the best
RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

Well, as one wise man once said, We can't always be too sure of new things and get ahead of ourselves...

One of the Mullards M8080/ 6C4 premiums ordered from TubeStore last time was superb initially until now... Over just last week I noticed the left channel starting to get noisy, which usually is dead silent. Slight tube rush and as if pieces of paper tearing...

Initially I thought it was dust collecting on the CLX's so I vacuumed the panels until the cows came home... But no the noise didn't go away nor did the cows come home.

Again just tonight I'm listening to a Norah Jones LP, and on quiet passages I hear this paper tearing again. Stopped the LP, listened closely to the left channel, definitely sounds like a bad signal tube. Changed the M8080 to a new spare I had ordered directly through CJ.

Presto! All is well and well is all! Once again quiet as a whistle dead silent and sounds marvelous! So there we go, just because it's a premium NOS tube doesn't mean didly squat! So now I have one brand new Mullard from the TubeStore in the right monoblock, and another new Mullard from CJ in the left monoblock. Both are working perfectly and I guess I'm heading full circle once again!

So back to CJ, I guess I'll just stick with them for now. I've placed another order for a pair of m8080's through CJ, might as well keep a few spares in case.

Funny thing is, the original m8080's which came fitted in the monoblocks have lasted over 7 years without missing a beat! They were also originals from CJ when the amps arrived for the first time at the dealers showroom. I'm wondering whether these new runs of NOS tubes being so called premiums going for higher prices are worth...

Anyway, I'm sure others have had more positive experiences with these suppliers and with CJ HQ in general. Have a good one to all and enjoy those tunes.
Cheers, RJ

[roger]

Thanks or the update Big Dog. Sorry to hear that one of your Mullards M8080/ 6C4 went out shortly after replacing it. In all fairness brand new tubes do sometimes go bad after a short period time from initial installation. In my opinion this is a quality issue of the tube manufacture combine the unfortunate event from the buyer... and is independent from the source of the tubes. But again this is my opinion, maybe CJ went through extra step for tube testing when the other source just test the tubes initially to make sure it works. But again I've heard that the replacement from original manufacture failed within short time after the initial installation as well.

[Big Dog RJ]

Roger that!

Yes, correct so is the reason why I'll just stick with CJ HQ for now. I've been dealing with them since 1989/90, always have been reliable and a pleasure to work with. It's just that after those few decades as ownership changed, I noticed prices were drastically different. So I thought I'd try out another tube supplier too check on quality and reliability. So far I've got three different suppliers at the moment - CJ, TubeStore & Tube Depot. I did order from Upscale for a short while, all of them were pretty much the same.

There's something slightly different to what CJ does in terms of tube matching testing & selection, I guess they have the exact amplifiers to try them out on. Or some sort of tube testing kit that is calibrated towards CJ's amplifiers. I remember back in 1998 visiting them and observing this process, thought to myself what a brilliant and labour intensive process...

I guess it's the price we pay for. Another thing is their sincere support, if you end up with a bad tube within 90 days they change it, might as well stick with them.

The interesting thing is certain tube types, especially the 6h30pi and a rare type 12AV7 which is used in the CAV45 (low gain input tube) is only available by order through CJ direct. No one else carries these tubes, so I guess CJ has their reasons for charging what they charge...

There are other variations of these tubes but not the exact particular type. In fact the exact type of M8080 that CJ used in their original ART monoblocks are the same ones I was initially using in the LP125m's after I took ownership of the monoblocks. They're still going over 8 years running. I just keep them as spares. Very similar sound between both amplifiers, especially after I modded the Class A ops. I think the M8080 Mullards used in the ART amps is what gave it their own special sound. It was absolutely marvelous, something quite different from CJ's newer versions.

Anyway, either way all of CJ's amplifiers provide absolute music and the highest level of musicality. It's a sheer delight and we're fortunate enough to be able to own such a brand providing beautiful sound in today's economy!

Cheers, RJ

[roger]

Well said Big Dog.
Yeah CJ does offer excellent service and I have to say their equipment/tubes have one of the lowest failure rate among the vac's(plus the 90 days warranty for additional peace of mind) and more thorough test for replacement tubes - and this is primary the reason on their different pricing, both on the equipment and supplies. I've got replacement for both kt150 and Phillips pre drives from other source and we shall how they are. But this won't be a while later as my art150 is only 4 months old.

[roberto]

Chicos,

I had learned that the cheap prices have a reason of why. The tubes can be re printed the number on it, and also there is no warranty. Buying from Conrad Johnson you have a warranty that these tubes have being tested and are original. So, it is a safe buying.

Happy listening!

[Big Dog RJ]

Correct Roberto my good mate.

Once in awhile I do tend to venture off into the woods, only to be bitten by the werewolf!

And that's when it hits me and I land back on solid ground...
If my good mates, whom I've known for so long at CJ ever knew I was buying tubes and accessories from elsewhere, they'd probably stop talking to me. I'm only trying to save on s few $$$ but that's where it's wrong!

After all we all own the fabulous gear that CJ offers, so why compromise? Our CJ gear does deserve the best!

I'm very surprised that the original Mullards I ordered nearly 10 years ago are still going... outstanding!

Cheers maties and enjoy those fine tunes!
Best, RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

G'day maties, trust everyone is enjoying the music inspite of this crazy virus going on... corona whatever?

Purchased a few nice LPs from a great store, some very finely recorded music on Opus, Eric Bibb- just like love, LP album, superb!

Anyway, this was my only day off just before a long 6 day work week starting tomorrow, so I got ready for a second listen of this fine artist, and a small hiccup!

The right channel monoblock one of the 6922 / E88CC tubes had that infamous white flashes as if there was a mini thunderstorm going on in the tube... bad tube! So that one was replaced by a brand new spare of the exact same type- Genalex Gold Lion 6922 used as a driver phase inverter stage.

This one or pair as it was ordered wasn't even a year old! So now the new pair is from CJ and the much older pair, which are actually Sovtek are over 6 years old...go figure.
The Sovteks were the original in these monoblocks along with the Mullards m8080 that are still going, hasn't missed a beat.

I'm beginning to wonder whether the extra dollars spent on the fancy Genalex Gold Lions are worth... all I can confirm at this stage is that the Sovteks are far more reliable than these gold pins, perfectly matched and balanced sought after NOS types. The Sovteks also sound equally superb, so I'm not sure whether I'm going to order the Genalex again.

This is not the first time, I've made earlier posts where these 6922's went bad, and all the symptoms have been these white flashes ... Since Ive ordered 3 sets of these in pairs, around the same time I ordered the Sovteks from CJ, both sets of gold lions failed within a year or little over.

In summary it's good to note the failure symptoms for those who may not have experience with tube failure as yet:

1. Input tubes - these would mainly cause sputtering noises, sudden burst like fire crackers going off, and causing the output tubes LEDs to flicker.

2. Driver / phase inverters- these would mainly have white flashes going on within the tube that is very bright and visible, like mini thunderstorms.

3. Output tube failure- well in most other tube amplifiers these tubes would just blow ... first with a very bright red along the entire grids of the tube from top to bottom. When output tubes are in normal operation, only the top / tip of tube and very end will glow orange/reddish that's normal. Leaving the middle portion grey in color which are the grids fitted along the length of the tube.

If at any given time these grids light up with a dark red hot color, that's a bad tube! Immediately off the amp and replace that tube. Thanks to CJ's clever use of highgrade output fuses, these protect the output transformer as well as the rest of the country side.

I remember back a few years ago, Audio Research didn't have protection fuses, and when an output tube went bad, it would blow along with the country side...and that was a pain in the capital butt to fix! I believe ARC has now incorporated output stage fuses.

CJ always used very high quality heavy duty ceramic fuses, and they do a fine job of protection. If an output tube is bad the fuss blows and an LED lights up. The only issue is finding the bad tube...After a little investigation it's pretty easy to identify the naughty tube.

Anyway, that's that. Just wanted to know if anyone else has had a not so good experience with the Genalex Gold Lions?
Don't get me wrong, they sound marvelous and do everything perfectly. It's just that I'm not too sure about their reliability factor.

Best, RJ

[roberto]

RJ,

Well said! We all know, that sooner or later, a tube will fail. Also, we do not know when this is going to happen. The good thing is, that you do not need to be a tech to replace a bad tube.

I have a shoe box under my bed. This shoe box has my system savings money. Each time that I do a listening, the less that I put inside is $ 2.00. This saving is only for my system.

Happy listening!

[roberto]

RJ,

Well said. When you see the whole output tube turning red, that's a bad signal, it is red and a bad tube. Thanks for all the tips!

Happy listening!

[roger]

Thanks for the tip RJ!

[AnotherJohnson]

First choice would be CJ directly. Than possibly Upscale Audio. Then possibly Tube Depot or MojoTone.

With CJ and Upscale you should get first quality tubes. The others have seemed OK in my experience too.

[Timo62]

I agree also that Conrad Johnson would be the first choice for your new issue stock tube replacements.

For those who like to venture into NOS tubes , I would highly recommend Brent Jessie Tubes at https://www.audiotubes.com. Brent offers a 30 day return policy. Not many places offer this for NOS tubes. I like this option because it allows me to try tubes and return them if they are not to my liking. NOS tubes can be very expensive. Brent is also very knowledgeable of the sonic characteristics of the tubes he sells and can usually get you really close to the sound you prefer.

I am not affiliated with Brent Jessie , just a long time satisfied customer.