Looking for integrated or pre amp (warm, euphonic, 3d)

[admin]

Cool. The absolutely best thing you can do is audition something first. So all things being equal, if you can test something out before the purchase, go that way.

[Big Dog RJ]

That is certainly the ultimate test, to try the gear out first hand in your own system. The variables are all known... since it's your very own, the only unknown variable being the gear you're about to try out.

Was just wondering though, according to your post, it says that you're looking for an Integrated or preamp... the LP140 is none of these! They're monaural amplifiers and quite powerful, no problems in driving your Vienna Acoustics. It will take your Vienna's to another level! Just make sure that you have an equally top level preamp.

The LP140M's are fantastic monoblocks, in that LP series the top of the line were the LP275M's. AJ's favourite... was!

Oh! Apart from your post heading... I just re-read your full post and realised that you've got an ARC preamp, excellent!
Hope it's to your liking. Cheers,
RJ

[smodtactical]

Hey guys so I decided I want to try a CJ pre that has a remote specifically and that pairs well with pass and potentially a CJ power amp. Looking for warmth, richness but detail.

I just heard a Prima luna evo 300 with my ZMF atticus headphones and I was in heaven... unbelievebaly musical sound. But not so great on speakers since I think they were under powered for my speakers (yamaha ns5000 which is 6 ohm and dips to 3.5 87 db).

Between the LS17, LS16 s2 and CT5 (or any other tube pre that are under $5k used) any recs ?

[admin]

You are getting very close to the price of a used ET7s2. Any chance you could stretch the budget a little and get into the current product line?

[AnotherJohnson]

You are also at the level where an LS28 could be obtained.

I’m guessing you want remote control, but you also want the euphonious distortion of bygone days. You also want the detail of more modern designs.

I think you’re going to have to audition stuff to be satisfied. At $5k, I’d recommend the LS28, but it’s hard to be sure if you don’t also tie the recommendation to a source and amp.

[smodtactical]

You are also at the level where an LS28 could be obtained.

I’m guessing you want remote control, but you also want the euphonious distortion of bygone days. You also want the detail of more modern designs.

I think you’re going to have to audition stuff to be satisfied. At $5k, I’d recommend the LS28, but it’s hard to be sure if you don’t also tie the recommendation to a source and amp.

Are you talking about the audio research ls28? I had the ref5 se and although it was good its not the sound I am after.

[smodtactical]

You are getting very close to the price of a used ET7s2. Any chance you could stretch the budget a little and get into the current product line?

How does that compare to the older pres like ct5 or act 2 series 2 ?

[admin]

You are getting very close to the price of a used ET7s2. Any chance you could stretch the budget a little and get into the current product line?

How does that compare to the older pres like ct5 or act 2 series 2 ?

Compared to the ct5, similar but more refined detail and soundstage. I listened to the ACT2 many years ago and it was a great unit. Really top of the line. I could not afford it at the time so it was way above my budget but I remember it sounding great. Probably not fair to make a comparison with my ET7s2 as time muddles the memory. You also are getting a newer unit so life expectancy is that much longer. The components are going to be 20 years younger on the ET7s2, and thus should last 20 years beyond the older units.

My personal preference would be ET7s2, ACT2, then CT5.

[AnotherJohnson]

Are you talking about the audio research ls28? I had the ref5 se and although it was good it’s not the sound I am after.

The LS28 sounds better than the Ref 5SE to my ears.

If you have something specific in mind and won’t be happy if you don’t get it, you really need to audition your candidates in YOUR system.

[smodtactical]

You are getting very close to the price of a used ET7s2. Any chance you could stretch the budget a little and get into the current product line?

How does that compare to the older pres like ct5 or act 2 series 2 ?

Compared to the ct5, similar but more refined detail and soundstage. I listened to the ACT2 many years ago and it was a great unit. Really top of the line. I could not afford it at the time so it was way above my budget but I remember it sounding great. Probably not fair to make a comparison with my ET7s2 as time muddles the memory. You also are getting a newer unit so life expectancy is that much longer. The components are going to be 20 years younger on the ET7s2, and thus should last 20 years beyond the older units.

My personal preference would be ET7s2, ACT2, then CT5.

Thank you sir.

In terms of amps, I am leaning classic 120 because I think i love el34 sound. What do you think ?

[smodtactical]

Are you talking about the audio research ls28? I had the ref5 se and although it was good it’s not the sound I am after.

The LS28 sounds better than the Ref 5SE to my ears.

If you have something specific in mind and won’t be happy if you don’t get it, you really need to audition your candidates in YOUR system.

Oh really. I was told ref5 se is even better than ls28 se but I see maybe not. Would you describe the ls28 as warm, 3d, rich and euphonic ?

[admin]

You are getting very close to the price of a used ET7s2. Any chance you could stretch the budget a little and get into the current product line?

How does that compare to the older pres like ct5 or act 2 series 2 ?

Compared to the ct5, similar but more refined detail and soundstage. I listened to the ACT2 many years ago and it was a great unit. Really top of the line. I could not afford it at the time so it was way above my budget but I remember it sounding great. Probably not fair to make a comparison with my ET7s2 as time muddles the memory. You also are getting a newer unit so life expectancy is that much longer. The components are going to be 20 years younger on the ET7s2, and thus should last 20 years beyond the older units.

My personal preference would be ET7s2, ACT2, then CT5.

Thank you sir.

In terms of amps, I am leaning classic 120 because I think i love el34 sound. What do you think ?

A classic 120 would pair very nicely. An ET7s2 and Classic 120 would be top shelf stuff in my opinion. You really could not do much better without spending significantly more. Plus, this would put your gear into the current active line. That should really give longevity to the system where you wouldn't be pressured to upgrade any time soon. Reliability would also be less of a concern as it's all essentially "new gear."

[AnotherJohnson]

Oh really. I was told ref5 se is even better than ls28 se but I see maybe not. Would you describe the ls28 as warm, 3d, rich and euphonic ?

I would not be so bold as to use such subjective terms to describe what another person would hear in a system I’ve never auditioned.

My only advice would be to audition your available candidates, and pick the one that sounds best to you.

Obviously it’s hard to audition used gear due to proximity and availability issues. So it’s natural to seek opinions.

Mine is that the ET7S2 and LS28 are better than older units from either company, and I’ve owned both.

If you want old school CJ, then go back further to late model PV, Premier, ART, CT, etc.

Really there is enough variability due to aging, interconnects, paired equipment, speakers and room, that I would take any opinions with a grain of salt, except your own.

FWIW, if the unit is in good repair, they all sound good. There are happy owners in every camp.

[smodtactical]

Any thoughts on how the classic 120 would compare to the lp140m ?

Also can I put el34s in the lp140m ? My friend who is selling his set said you can and just need to adjust bias.

[Big Dog RJ]

LP140M vs Classic 120SE, there's a lot in common but differences are there.

The Classic 120 uses EL34's as their standard Output tubes, giving you 120w / ch. The SE version is upgraded with Teflons and Vishays and utilises the KT120's, which sounds fuller, better drive and control on difficult loads.

*This all depends on what speakers you're using and size of room you want to energise*

The LP140M are monoblocks, has all the upgraded goodies of the Classic 120 SE and provides more headroom, simply being monoblocks that are dedicated to driving just one channel. Hence, mains trannies are not shared in anyway and cross-talk between channels at the output stage is minimal. With monoblocks, you will experience greater control and separation between channels. However, it doesn't mean that the powerful stereo version isn't any better, it's just as good. With monoblocks you'll get more torque and idle power on tap for better transient control.

Both types of amplifiers are nearly the same, so in terns of system installation, it all depends on the speakers. If you have a larger room, the monoblocks may prove to be effortlessly capable and will cruise along ... however, you don't want to over-energise the room, as this will cause a collapsed sound field with unwanted phase issues and standing waves bouncing all over the joint... certainly don't want that!

So first consider your speakers, are they quite difficult to drive to realistic levels? If so then the monoblocks would suit better.
If your speakers present a benign load then the Classic 120/ SE will be more than adequate. No issues at all.
The Classic 120se can also handle difficult loads with ease, there's no sweat! However, that extra bit of current and high voltage in the LP140m will certainly help if required.

The answer to your question is solely based upon your understanding of your current system. So only you can answer that.

Regarding of changing Output tubes in the Classic 120, just use the standard EL34's please. If you have the SE version then you can use the KT120 safely. Other than that, why mess with it? Oh! Because someone said so...

Cheers, RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

My tech's last response: from the above, I asked can we change tubes on the LP140M monos... to say EL34's?

His response, "why!" Give me one reason why you want to do that? So I said because the user would like to get a feel of EL34's in the LP140m amps. Again, that's not a reason, that's an opinion. So according to him and two of my other trusted tech's, there's no apparent "reason" to change Output tubes in the already outstanding LP140M's. Unless... you want to really mess with the amps.

If the user would prefer the EL34's signature sound then just stick with the Classic 120, that's it and that's all! Ok then, thanks and I called off before getting slapped.

Placing EL34's in the LP140m... I wouldn't do it but if you must, try it and see what happens. Good luck.
Best, RJ

[roberto]

Hola,
Here is a much better understanding why the tubes are different in their pin connections>
https://www.jj-electronic.com/en/6550
https://www.jj-electronic.com/en/el34

Happy listening!

[smodtactical]

Thank you big dog and roberto.

You know here is a point of comparison. I know its weird. But I don't have high sensitivity speakers (NS5000 from yamaha). And I tried a prima luna evo 300 to drive them and they didnt really open them up very well and sound big. But I tried my headphones on the prima luna and it was absolutely sublime!

My buddy let me borrow the lp140m and they sounded great on my ns5000 and drove them with ease... but when i connected my headphones to the speaker taps of the conrad johnson they did not have the magic of the Prima luna amp.

So I wonder is that because I just love el34? If so then I guess I should aim for the classic 120.

[Big Dog RJ]

Ah, yes that's a good point.

Indeed go with what you prefer. Just because some gear is pricey or more powerful than other gear, it doesn't necessarily mean that the bigger more powerful versions are better, not at all.

In normal hifi gear, any sound will do... but this category is not normal, this is the highend audiophile level. Therefore, it's a highly personal preference that must suit your individual needs not some reviewers.

The EL34's are fantastic tubes, and although a handful of them may not pack a punch, a large bank of them certainly will. Apart from the Classic 120 in standard version, I had the opportunity to bring home a very special ART series amp to try on my Quad ESL 2905's at the time. It was the ARTsa fitted with EL34's and driving Quads it was by far the best Quad - CJ combination I ever owned. The preamp I used was the ACT2, and I would have happily lived with this system forever but unfortunately the damn Quads shat themselves multiple times, it was a total disaster!

Anyway, you don't have chase after an ARTsa amp, either of these are fine, and I've auditioned the Classic 120 at great lengths, fitted with EL34's it's a all tube power with finesse!
The EL34's have that special midrange magic that quite a lot of more powerful tubes don't quite have.

Cheers to EL34's, they've been around for decades! The other factor to consider is that CJ's Classic series is much newer than their LP series amplifiers, so you're looking at current production.

Cheers, RJ

[smodtactical]

My friend once again is pushing me more to get his lp140ms because I can just put el34 in by changing the internal bias pot he said.

I wonder can the classic 120 SE take el34 ? or only k120 ?