CJ Classic 2se preamp not good with CJ 2275SE amp?

[retroactiv]

I have the fortunate opportunity to purchase a CJ 2275SE solid state amp.
I was planning on looking for a CJ Classic 2se preamp to go with it, but someone who had both told me the gain is too high for them to be together and ended up with only a tiny range of usable volume control.
Seems hard to believe since you would think a CJ preamp would be a safe bet for this CJ amp.
Anyone out there have any feedback about this?
I often listen at low volume levels, so would be concerned if it means I wouldn't be able to play well at low volume.
I don't suppose the gain can be reduced or disabled on the Classic 2se?

[AnotherJohnson]

I used that amp with some CJ and other preamps that had gain of about 18 dB (PV11, for example). It seemed fine.

The Classic 2 has 27 dB of gain. That’s high even for CJ. The classic 2 can output over 9 volts. The amp is driven to full power by 1.35.

So … matching them with the goal of low volume listening might lead to disappointment.

[retroactiv]

Thanks for confirming what I heard from someone else!

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes that's about right. Any of CJ's newer designs or put as "refined circuits" where they've further minimised parts, with shorter signal paths enabling them to achieve a single high gain active stage will result in pretty high gain and output voltage. That's also one of the reasons CJ tube preamps can drive long lengths of interconnect cables.

If you're looking at lower gain preamps then you have to consider their earlier designs, such as the PV12, PV14 or PV15. Anything after that including the Classic series, CT and ET preamps, were all designed with much higher gain.

A PV12 would be ideal for low volume levels or even a PV15 if you preferred to have remote.
One of the most enjoyable preamps I ever used was the original Classic series 1 preamp. This came out before the Classic 2 which used the 6922 tube. The Classic series 1 used a pair of Mullards M8080 tubes, highly musical and a joy to use. I had the Classic SE version and it controlled the Premier 350, MF2550SE and Classic 60se amps extremely well. These combinations were outstanding on low to moderate volumes, driving Quad ESL's and Maggie's at the time. Our room was quite small to average, lived in a summer villa apartment at the time, so nothing too large a space for big sound.

With CJ's newer designed preamps, their gain settings start at 25dB or higher and this will allow for a higher output level. Hence, not too great for low volume listening.

Hope it goes well, and keep us posted.
Cheers, RJ

[retroactiv]

Thanks Big dog. One thing though about the Classic SE using M8080 tubes. Aren't the 8080 tubes almost impossible to get? I was thinking about that model, but I couldn't find replacement tubes? I bet the Classic SE would sound even better than the Classic 2 SE.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes that's correct!
The Mullards are now considered as NOS type, so a bit hard to find, nonetheless they are available at a certain suppliers.
The Mullards are fantastic and at a high level of musicality.

If you come across the PV12 that would probably be just about right, and those tubes are generally available.

All three of these CJ preamps use the Mullard M8080 tubes:
PV14
PV15
Classic series 1

Only after these were in production, with the next models of linestage preamps, CJ shifted over to the 6922 variant, which is now used as the standard in all their current designs. An ET3/ SE may be suitable but you'll need to trial it first in order to make sure.

See how you go.
Cheers, RJ

[admin]

I did a tube replacement for my PV14 last summer. Bought them from thetubestore.com and were very reasonably priced at $20 a tube.

[AnotherJohnson]

Something I don’t think we touched on here is that this ultimate volume issue is tied to speaker efficiency and room size.

If the speakers have an efficiency in the 80 dB/W/m range, these high gain preamps can work well. If the speaker is 90+ dB/W/m, it will probably be less pleasing.

[Joe Appierto]

Something I don’t think we touched on here is that this ultimate volume issue is tied to speaker efficiency and room size.

If the speakers have an efficiency in the 80 dB/W/m range, these high gain preamps can work well. If the speaker is 90+ dB/W/m, it will probably be less pleasing.

Good point. When I had the 17LS (26dB of gain) and the 16LS2 (25 dB of gain), I never had a volume issue with the relatively inefficient QUAD 989 speakers. A little bit apples to oranges, the CA200, on the other hand, even at 00 volume produces sound albeit low level.

On another topic, the Coda integrated that the OP provided the link to is all solid state as far as I could tell.

[AnotherJohnson]

On another topic, the Coda integrated that the OP provided the link to is all solid state as far as I could tell.

So it is. I’ve never auditioned one.

So the target has moved from 125 Wpc to 400 Wpc.

[AnotherJohnson]

So the target has moved from 125 Wpc to 400 Wpc.

Wrong again, AJ.

The integrated isn’t that powerful.

Honestly, the Coda looks quite nice.

Another of these relatively uncommon SS brands is Spectral. These things don’t come up used that often because the owners end up loving them, and they last a very long time.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, the R Coda gear is very highend. There was a chap who used to post here once in awhile; LL21 Lloyd. He was previously using the CJ GATS2 with a mighty Gryphon amp to drive his Wilson's. Since recently about a year ago, he changed all pre-power to Coda preamp with monoblocks, and absolutely loves it. Says it's a different dimension driving his Wilson's. I think he has the XLF's or Alexandria, plus two Gotham subs.
Maybe he might post sometime soon. Pretty awesome system I reckon.

The Coda gear is quite pricey and made in small numbers. I'm wondering if these are also listed as limited edition.
Either way, it's fine tunes!
Cheers, RJ