My New Classic 120SE

[Big Dog RJ]

Hey Timo, Nice one mate! That's going to be one sweet expansive sound indeed!

The Harbeth's are very special speakers with an extraordinary soundstage, plus sonic perfection when placed carefully. Almost every Harbeth system I've listened to was top notch! Except for a few where placement wasn't well thought out and followed according to their guidelines.

Some of that sweet sound reminds me of CJ & a Proac combination, which is another superb match.

Although I'm very passionate about panels and prefer what they can deliver in terms of transparency, speed and definition, along with superb soundstaging details, there are a few dynamic driver types that perform equally well and are an absolute pleasure to listen to, and one of them is Harbeth.
Do let us know how it all goes and I can see your reaction when that Classic 120 drives the Harbeth's to celestial heights of sonic perfection.
Cheers mate and have a good one! RJ

[Timo62]

Hello Everyone,

I did receive the standard Conrad Johnson Classic 120 amp and have had it in my system for about a week now! I am really enjoying this amp. It really brings my Harbeth M40.2 speakers to life. I am finally hearing what the speakers can do compared to my prior CJ MV55 amp. The Classic 120 really provides my speakers now with a full range sound. I am hearing so much more of the music spectrum from top to bottom. It has no problem driving my 12 inch woofers in my speakers. The midrange has blossomed with a much more fuller and open sound with more air. The Classic 120 is a very musical and sweet sounding amp.

The Classic 120 can be configured with all of the SE upgrades while still using EL34 tubes ,which has already been mentioned by RJ. It would be an extra cost over the standard version 120 though.

I recently heard from a couple sources though that the Teflon caps would actually make the sound warmer and fuller. I would have the option at this time to have a Classic 120SE version with the EL34 tubes. The amp that I currently have is actually a loaner/demo model , while I am waiting for my amp to be built. I specifically chose the standard 120 version using the EL34 tubes because I felt it would be a warmer version. So far I have not been disappointed.

Any opinions on the difference with the Teflon caps?

[roberto]

Hola. My version is SE with the KT 120s. Its my liking I chose it, first because I do like a lot the behavior of the tube. I had previouly the EL34, (MV-50, MV-52 and Premier Four) and it is a fantastic tube. Also had the 6550s. The KT120 is a very reliable tube and has a tremendous sound quality. It is one of the newer design tube and the intention is to replace the 6550.
The sound is a matter of liking. What I do like, not necessary must be yours. And I can report to you that it has a lot of dynamics, robust bass, magic midrange and crystal clear highs. The harmonic texture is present with 5 stars. The timbre, the size of the instruments and the voices, the air between them, and how it handles the difficulty in some passages of the music with proud praise. The stage is wide open with truly sense of 3D. All I can say is that it is a jewel.
My overall sound is warm, and I do believe that this delicate, well articulated pleasant sound, mainly is due to the teflon capacitors. I love them. Teflon caps have the virtue of storage and keeps the same capacitance value at all working voltages. In other capacitors, this capacitance might change at different working voltages.
This is the main difference to me.

Happy listening!

[Big Dog RJ]

Very nice one indeed Timo!

I think you need to place your classic 120 (EL34) on a new post / separate thread. Mainly because this particular amplifier you have ordered directly through CJ is "special" and there are just a handful of these versions out there with the EL34 config.

I have also listened to just one type of ARTsa also with EL34's that was a golden sound and was going to be my final choice, until I held back for monoblocks. Maybe I should have gone on that route... Who knows.

The EL34 is not everyone's favourite but one thing I can say is that during the early glorious sound of CJ and its beginnings, nearly all their power amps were fitted with EL34, and boy did they sound marvelous!
Trust me, I know the sound you are hearing and I can see why you are enjoying every minute of it!
Enjoy those Harbeth's and your special EL34 amp, that's one very special sound indeed.
Cheers mate, and looking forward to your new post!
RJ

[Timo62]

Hello RJ,

Thanks for you comments and input. How are you enjoying your mono blocks?

I actually have the standard Classic 120 amp on order. I currently have the option to change my order to a special edition Classic 120SE/EL34. Not sure if I would want to make that change though.

I was just curious if anyone might have an opinion on what the special edition change might have on the sound. If it might give it a warmer/fuller sound with the teflon caps.


Thanks

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes it will Timo.
Those Teflon caps are truly special and they also beef up the power supply with some fancy metal foil or vishay resistors, it all depends on customer's budget if you want the full SE upgrade.

Sorry, seems like I missed your point that on have placed an order for the standard version, which is actually equally good but not quite superb compared to the SE version.

This does come at a certain price point, which to many may not seem feasible in a real-world setting with real world priorities, such as family, kids, higher education etc. If I was on my own, oh boy I would have very easily had the the GATs2 plus Art 300 Mono's no doubt but I do have other priorities to take care of.

Which leads to my next response regarding the monoblocks; yes I'm enjoying them very much and at the same time I sought my advice from a fellow forum member who has done the identical SE upgrade on his amps as well, again identical amps LP125m's. The answer was quite simple, if you can afford it then go for it but also keeping in mind that the investment / extra money spent will not be recovered once such an item is sold... Unless I plan to make these my final amp. And that SE upgrade is not cheap, nearly 3 grand in total, that's a lot of spend compared to what I can do for my daughters education.
Anyway, the choice and decision is yours, one thing I can confirm is that CJ's SE upgrades do take the performance to another level, by how far a margin is to be debated by the owner.
Cheers mate and let us know how it goes.
RJ

[Timo62]

Thanks RJ for your input!

I here what you are saying about real world priorities. I am trying not to go too crazy here with money spent this year. I have already bought my speakers/stands , upgraded speaker/interconnect cables and The CJ Classic 120 this year so far!

Glad to hear you are enjoying your mono blocks. They are very nice amps!

The Classic 120 is more than likely my last amp. I have been looking to get off the audio equipment merry go round for a while now. With my Harbeth M40.2 speakers, I am off the speaker merry go round without a doubt.

I actually had not even considered the SE version from the start. The standard Classic 120 version is exactly what I wanted and has not disappointed me at all. It surprised me that some folks recently commented the SE version would be warmer/fuller sounding. I prefer a warmer sound. Tried too many audio gear over the years that sounds good at first , than became bright and not enjoyable.

Thanks again for your feedback. I will let you know which version of The Classic 120 I choose.

[Timo62]

Hello ,

I did have a chance to listen to The Classic 120 SE version. It is a very beautiful sounding amp. It does take the level up a bit above the Classic 120.
The only issue I had with it was that the tonal balance was rather hot in the treble and it was a little to sparkly up top for my ears. I know everyone hears things differently. I spent a few hours listening to the Classic 120 SE with the ET7 preamp. It might have been the new ET7 Series 2 preamp. I could hear the magic , but the treble balance and extra sparkle up top bothered me throughout my audition.

The Classic 120 SE amp had about 150 hours ,so from what I have learned there would still be more break in required.

Anyone have an opinion based on what I described about my experience with the Classic 120 SE version? Just curious if what I heard was the natural sound of this amp/preamp combo.

It might be just a matter that I prefer the Classic 120 sound over the SE version.

Thanks

[Big Dog RJ]

Hey Timo, how's it going mate;

Yeah, looks like this is the typical sound you would get from a lot of things being Teflon related and other parameters: Room acoustics, ancillary equipment, interconnects, cables, speaker wire, power cords, power conditioning elements, tubes, and the list goes on...

Overall, although each of these elements requires a certain time to settle in, there will be an initial type of sound reproduced from that particular system, regardless of what version (SE or standard).
If you're after a particular kind of sound, my best advice is to focus on exactly that! After all, it's your ears, your money, your personal system and your life! Therefore, no matter what series, whether 2-3 & so on, Teflon or not, gold plated this and silver wire that... At the end of the day mate, your ears are the final judge, nothing else matters.

If the standard classic 120 version suits you best so be it, and I'm sure you will enjoy it for many many years.

Just as an example, there are two chaps who are very well off down here. One has a full Audio Note Kondo system, where he has paid 200 grand for a pair of monoblocks, called the Kondo Kogaru. Look it up, they look out of this world like from another planet!

He also has the Kondo Overture integrated amp, just 32w/ch fitted with EL34's. He let me use this for awhile on my Quads, the sound was magical and so was the price, 20 grand for a 32w integrated! The wifey went "what!? " and a few extra words as well, and that's all she wrote.!

This chap also has the original CJ premier 8 monoblocks with the standard 6550's. He swears that these are the best amplifiers he has ever had to date! I tried to make an offer but he wouldn't budge. This is a chap who owns the only ever pair of Kogaru amps in Aus, at 200 bloody grand a pair! And he still feels that his 25 year old pair of CJ Prem 8's are the best... Go figure!

The other chap, I'm referring to, has the top of the line Martin Logan Ren15A, driven with his GatS2 and a Classic 120se with EL34's. This is the one I listened to last when I mentioned to you that I had heard both versions. First he had the classic 120 standard, then he got a different amp, which was the SE version fitted with kt120's, and shortly after that he got the SE version with EL34's. Very similar to what I experienced with the ArtSA with EL34's, it was marvelous! But then again it all depends on system matching and personal tastes, and I also feel the ARTsa with kt120's is a superb SOTA amp, hence my post on the Artsa "all an amplifier can be".

From what I heard recently, the chap who's using the ML Ren15A, now wants to upgrade to the Art150, because he feels that the kt150 is a superior tube... Maybe, who knows, only his ears can judge that, and in a few months he'll call me up to come over for a listen, just to justify the purchase...

So my point is, even after acquiring my latest iteration of CJ monoblocks, which are the LP125m's, fitted with KT 120's and not the full SE version, who cares?
I'm extremely happy with what it's delivering and capable of, plus since Im using ML hybrids, that extra extended bass has hardly anything to do with the amps, simply because these speakers have powered bass drivers. Therefore, upgrading to whatever form is not going to result in the amps full potential unless I was to use a full range transducer ribbon or stat panel...

So therefore, whichever models you choose, regardless of what the experts say or intend on achieving, at the end of the day, your personal sound will only suit you, hence you have to listen very carefully to what it is that you're after. Once you hear it, you will certainly know right away that's the sound you like and that's the sound you want!
Go get it!
Cheers, RJ

[jahatl513]

One of the reasons I sold the new classic 120SE was that it sounded all to much like my Premier 12 c1's in every way but the P12's were better. Bought an ART 150 so I'll have to start over with perceptions and listening.

[Timo62]

Hello RJ ,
Life is good here. Thanks for your insightful response.

I agree with what you say about finding the right sound for ourselves. We all hear things differently and have our own preferences in what we want to hear in our own system.

The Classic120SE that I listened to had been modified with the EL34 tubes. Along with the ET7, they both had their magic. I was just curious if anyone else might have noticed the top end being extra sparkly sounded with an elevated treble balance. This might just be something that I am sensitive to and others might not even have an issue with.

That is very interesting to hear about the gentleman who prefers the Premier 8 mono blocks over his Audio Note Kondo Kogaru. That says a lot about the Premier 8 amps.

I was actually considering possibly a vintage pair of Premier 5 , 8 , or 12 mono blocks for my amplification. I was concerned that the Premier 12s in the EL34 triode mode might not had been enough power for my speakers though. You do not see a lot of Premier 5s and 8s come up for sale in the used market either. That is what led me the Conrad Johnson's new version EL34 Classic 120 amp. It has everything that I was looking for and it would be brand new.

I have been very happy with the Classic 120 standard version amp. I have not been disappointed at all. Since I had the opportunity to have the SE version , I thought I would explore that option.

Glad to hear that you are very satisfied with your system. Enjoy the music!

Thanks!

[Big Dog RJ]

Hey Timo how's it going;

Just wanted to share some 50cts worth, I actually do miss the CAV45, with just a simple operation, 3 line inputs and those glorious EL34's. Whenever it powers up and tunes start playing, it just makes you melt in your seat...

Obviously the monoblocks take it to another level but they are fussy, takes about 2-3 hrs to get going or sounding at its best, and when that happens I've either dozed off and missed the entire album I was supposed to listen to!
They also require more care and attention, need to be careful not to switch off the preamp prior to the power amps... Kaboom!

All of this is great for now, since I'm still fairly flexible but when the Ostio kicks in, I just want to have that CAV45 back, what a pleasure to listen to!

The point I'm trying to make is, I sincerely think you prefer the signature sound of the EL34. For the musicality it delivers plus the highly palpable mid-range. On the more positive side, you won't have just 45w of power like that of the CAV45, rather with the Classic 120, you're looking at a solid 120w top to bottom full frequency. I strongly believe this combination of tubes and power will be all you would ever require for your Harbeth's.

I'm not sure what caused the brightness in treble but I could probably point it on those Teflons as they are a pain in the butt to get them to sound right, they take a while... Far, too long in my opinion.

On the other hand, the standard versions are just as good and will provide all the SOTA sound you're after. It also depends on how much more you're willing to spend for marginal improvements... How far can we achieve this so called SOTA? I don't think it even exists! It's a matter of perception just like the chap who has the Kogaru amps. Although Kondo San was known for his passion towards live natural music and always looked at his amps as a work of art and not just electronic devices.

At the end of the day, it seems that the owner preferred the push-pull topology over SET amplification. Obviously due to being more dynamic and having all the musicality that CJ is known for, can't go wrong with that!

The choice is yours Timo, let us know what you eventually decide on.
Cheers and all best mate, take your time no hurry...
RJ

[jahatl513]

Timo62: Premier 12 mono blocks are only EL34 driven in the "XS" model of Premier 12, otherwise KT88/6550's or KT120 as with my C1 upgrade and I hear from reliable sources that KT88 Genelax are super nice. Now for power, this is from CJ's site: It used two pair of 6550s to produce 140 watts. It is similar in size and circuit to the stereo Premier Eleven. The Twelve-XS is a Twelve with the output stage configured to use a pair of EL34s operated as triodes to produce about 60 watts.

[Timo62]

Hello Jahatl513,

You are correct!

The reason you mention about the Premier 12XS in the triode version only being 60 watts per channel is the reason I decided against them. I was only interested in an EL34 version CJ amp. The Premier 5 and 8 XS mono blocks would have worked though. The Premier 8 XS version would've been 130 watts per channel and the Premier 5 mono blocks are 200 watts per channel. You just do not see a lot of the 5s and 8s come up for sale in good shape.

The standard Classic 120 is a good amp. It mates well with my Premier 14 preamp and has a similar sound to my MV55 amp. It really drives my Harbeth M40.2 speakers with ease.

[Quality1]

How did things fair out for you as far as the classic 120 and you’re Harbeth. I purchased the classic120 se and the ET7 with a pair of Graham audio BBC monitors I am patiently waiting for everything to break in since you had a Headstart I wonder if you could give me a clue on how things will sound in the end thank you Quality1

[roberto]

Timo, you can´t go wrong with this marvellous and superb quality sound. I have had in my system a lot of different brand of power amplifiers, and I chose this one. It is not perfect, but what it does, it does it with strong 5 stars. I assure you that you won´t regret it.

Happy listening!

[Will Mac]

Has anyone tried Treasure 120's instead of Tungsol's?