The Martin Logan CLX's, a true work of Art!

[AnotherJohnson]

FWIW #2

Sit in sweet spot for the stat panels.

Have helper dial phase 15 degrees at a time and listen to something with strong continuous bass. You will notice it go from weak to strong to weak again. Home in on your preference. Try it there for a few days with general programs. Then tweak some more if needed.

[AnotherJohnson]

Caveat: If the sweet spot for the stat panels is at a spot that just won’t work for the sub, move the sub.

Sigh … it is a lot simpler to forget about the sub. It is an unnatural concept for voices and all instruments except pipe organs (which no clear acoustic center).

But many speakers beg for them by their weak bass response.

I will never own one again unless it’s for a multichannel system with a dedicated subwoofer track for special house rattling effects.

But sub or no sub, the CLX Arts are great speakers.

[roberto]

Right on with the inversion of the preamp AJ, and taking a serious listening, I could not tell a difference with 270º and 90º, the bass intensity is about the same, and all the bass notes exhibit a superb definition. Both must be listened and choose the one that suites better for your ears. Curiously. I find less fat the 90º but it could be because of my room and the distance of the sub and my listening position.

Yes, ears, and position!

[Big Dog RJ]

Ha! Goldilocks it is!

Nice one maties, thanks for all the help.
Cheers, RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

Heading to my CJ dealer mates place tomorrow arvo. Will check out the ART150 with ET7S2 driving Quads 2912's (my previous stats!). He says there's a massive difference in both scale + dynamics and presentation + control. Yes, I would certainly think so because this is where the higher powered KT150 topology takes over... plus the trannies are bigger. Looking forward to it!

Until then, enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ

[admin]

RJ,
Be sure to give us your thoughts on that system. I'm sure you are going to have a lot of fun.

[Big Dog RJ]

G'day maties, trust all is tickety boo...

The whole purpose of this arvo visit was to get my Nordost cables redone with the upgraded Moon Glo spades that are found in the Valhalla cables and standard in the Odin supreme reference range. The previous owner had Wilson XLF's, which had much larger terminals... due to this he had changed the spades to a different kind in order to accommodate the Nordost cables. Anyway, I've sent them off upstate for the necessary change and in the meantime borrowed some other brand... absolute no comparison! Now very eagerly waiting for the return of my Nordost!

Yes, the ET7S2 and ART150 was a very highend combination, without a doubt. It had all that scale and definition as previously posted and had that typical KT150 big tube sound. Dynamics and a strong "holds itself together," presentation are it's main strengths. Although the preamp is doing a wonderful job, I believe it's the power amp that's contributing more towards that upgraded level in performance.

I must say one thing and that is, anyone already owning an ET7S2 and partnered with either the Classic 120se or ART150, this is pretty much SOTA! As good as it gets... I wouldn't even bother with the ART300's or GATS2.

Perhaps a real tangible difference maybe the Art88 partnered with the ART108A's, since this is Class A output territory. Speaking of Class A, although it was certainly a very good presentation, overall my experience with Class A bias on power amplifiers does something quite remarkable with the grip and control on speakers. And it's the Class A performance that I prefer. I wouldn't ever sell my modded monoblocks unless I was seriously considering the ART108A's... but that's just crazy spend. Not necessary for me.

Cheers to those who are considering these new ART series amplifiers, they are in a class of their own and a definite improvement to consider. Just make sure the rest of your gear is up to par!

Woof! RJ

[roberto]

Right on with the inversion of the preamp AJ, and taking a serious listening, I could not tell a difference with 270º and 90º, the bass intensity is about the same, and all the bass notes exhibit a superb definition. Both must be listened and choose the one that suites better for your ears. Curiously. I find less fat the 90º but it could be because of my room and the distance of the sub and my listening position.

Yes, ears, and position!

Hola Chicos,

Last night I tried to be an audiophile regarding the bass intensity in my room. I cranked a little bit more the volume knob for this purpose. I have to admit that I was wrong, yes there is a difference and I did like better the 270º knob position. The 270º is more precise, and less fat bass. I like the bass without big resonances and in the 90º, it is fatter at certain frequencies, the super lower ones.

So now, I'm using the sub in 270º setting. I move the knob left and right a little bit to find the right position...it is more accurate and more enjoyable too.

Happy listening!

[Big Dog RJ]

Good stuff Robbo mate, glad you found the right settings for phase. Like you said, you have to try different settings and check which one suits best. It's just that the BF subs have 4 main control levels of various settings... sky's the limit! It can be overwhelming for the first time.

Re. To phase settings; I started out at 90° then as the sub reached closer to its required 50hr run-in mark... I've now set the phase at 180°. Like you said it's a clearer LF detail that's delivered, very nice!

Attn: to ET7S2 preamp owners; did you all notice that the RCA connectors at the back panel are Rhodium plated, not gold? The gold plating is on version one as well as the GATS1 but on the S2 series, they're all Rhodium plated. Rhodium is 8 times more costly than gold, and I just got a quote for 8 moon glo spade connectors for my Nordost cables, they're damn pricey! Because of Rhodium plating... I gave them the go ahead... I think I've lost the plot!

Woof! RJ

[admin]

Not sure if the rhodium plated plugs will make difference but it's always nice to know you have the best.

[AnotherJohnson]

It is the contact resistance that matters.

Gold, (and probably Rhodium too), does not form an oxide (it doesn’t tarnish). This means that if a gold connection is good today, it should be good next year too.

Silver does form an oxide when exposed to air (it tarnishes).

A silver connection will need to be brightened up from time to time to maintain its performance. A wrap rub with silver tarnish remover should work. Or a very light Emory rub, but over time this will affect the joint fit class.

Most oxides have higher contact resistance than their base metal without oxide.

The thing the cable connects to will establish the galvanic cell, or lack thereof.

I THINK gold to gold would be perfect. But gold to rhodium would seem at least as good. And maybe rhodium to rhodium would be better … but I don’t know.

FWIW I’ve been running AQ Rocket 88 72 DBS speaker cables with silver bananas for several months.

I found a used pair of the AQ William Tell Zero 72 DBS with spades on the speaker end and bananas on the amp end and I will be trying them later next week. I think they are silver.

My binding posts on amp and speakers appear to be gold plated.

I’ve been a long time fan of bananas, but I’ve recently begun to appreciate the spades too … at least at the speaker end.

[roberto]

All metals conduct the electricity. Rhodium, Ruthenium and Palladius. Osmium, Iridium and Platinum. Aurum, Argentum and Cuprum, are the most conductive metal elements. Silver is the best conductive element, followed by copper, then gold. Other conductive metal elements are very rare and very expensive too.

There is a lot of research choosing the best metal terminal fitting. The good thing is to have a lot of research. There are golden ears listening and choosing the best connectors. I remember long time ago when Mr. Mike Berns, from Berns Industries made the first super high quality RCA connectors.

Happy listening!

[AnotherJohnson]

Silver is the best conductive element, followed by copper, then gold.

The "most conductive" argument has to be considered in juxtaposition to the contact resistance and the oxidation arguments, and the galvanic cell arguments that come along uninvited when you pair dissimilar metals.

It's a complex problem when you start messing with and connecting wires to different things.

You do have to decide by your ears.

If you put Rhodium spades on copper, does it sound better or worse than Rhodium spades on silver? If you stick silver bananas into brass binding posts, does it sound different than if the binding posts were copper? Or gold plated?

If the spades are secured to copper or silver by a compression fit, does it sound better or worse than if the spades were soldered in place. What about the solder? Silver best? What about flux?

My point is that this issue of connecting things is very complicated. It seems so simple to just plug in. But there's more to it than that.

There are cables out there that retail for $30k. Even if the entire conductor were made of pure silver, gold, or even Rhodium, the cost cannot be justified by the material expense alone. If it is justified, it has to be justified based on the sound, and defended by the R&D costs to design it.

I dunno ...there must be something to some of it or so many wouldn't be willing to pay so much for so little.

[admin]

The truth is that I have never made too much of the connector metal type, other than not liking anything that oxidizes. I think oxidation can be a priblems.

My speaker connector preference type are spades. I am not saying they sound any better than other types, but I feel like I can tighten those down more than any other connector. I really turn them hard and tight and I have never had a loose connection, never accidentally pulled them off, etc.

Different folks are going to have their preferences.

[AnotherJohnson]

For the audiophile who loves choices:

http://www.cardas.com/parts_binding_posts.php

Probably similar for cable termination choices.

Edit: https://www.furutech.com/2013/01/27/1077/

I got a kick out of the billet copper silver plated rhodium plated choices. Cover all the bases. Where’s the gold layer?

Sigh …

And these all make the Wilson $800 binding post upgrade look WAAAAAY over priced, which (of course) it is. It was semi defendable at $598, but there’s no defense for $800. This stuff is as crazy as fuses.

I wish none of these tweaks were audible.

“A fool and his money are soon parted.” Said the man who’s been lining the rabbit hole with big bills …

[AnotherJohnson]

There are cables out there that retail for $30k. Even if the entire conductor were made of pure silver, gold, or even Rhodium, the cost cannot be justified by the material expense alone. If it is justified, it has to be justified based on the sound, and defended by the R&D costs to design it.

I am wrong about this. If rhodium were used for the conductors, the material costs could justify the msrp.

I was looking at costs and found a post by our own Joe A on a PS Audio forum comparing prices. I have to admit I was not prepared for the price of the rhodium compared to gold, platinum, or palladium.

The price has been volatile these past two years, but it is still very high.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, that's correct. Different materials will no doubt have a slight change to the sound and impact other areas on overall cable design.

The problem was actually oxidation. The previous owner of the Nordost speaker cables that I'm using now, has the Wilson XLF's. Since the XLF's terminals are much wider than standard spades, the duffo went and changed the original Nordost spades with some copper rubbish... which overtime started to oxidise! I only noticed it whenever I would disconnect cables to move gear around. At first I thought it was just a small issue that can be easily cleaned with De-oxit but over time the copper plating or whatever the heck those spades were, started tarnishing. The oxidation became worse!

So now, it's been just around two years since I've owned these particular Nordost cables, and my trusted CJ importer also carries the full range of Nordost accessories including Odin Supreme reference series. So when inquired about these connectors, seems like the previous owner just went ahead and put something that accommodated his XLF's without thinking of quality! Jeez, goes to show that even XLF owners go to great lengths just to cut corners! Seriously c'mon, couldn't he have afforded something better...???

Anyway, when I asked which ones they recommend, only the very best! And that turns out to be the Moon Glo spades that are Rhodium plated, which are best suited to Nordost since they use pure silver plating. Only in the Odin reference supreme do they use pure silver wires plus higher graded plating in all their reference series accessories. That's why they cost crazy money...

Like I said, I've lost the plot! The thing is, I got really annoyed with this oxidation issue, I just wanted them to fit the very best and forget! After all, I cannot afford the Odin's and I seriously won't divulge in that kind of spend. I'm keeping the existing Nordost cables so might as well give it the best termination.

That's also when I noticed the plating on the RCA connectors on the ET7S2 and GATS2. Not sure if this is also found on the Art88 but I'm sure it has very best!

It's going to take a while to get these changed since they have to order in the Moon Glo spades. Till then using some heavy gauge Zion cables... oh boy, what a change in everything... no where near to Nordost. Until then we sit tight, what a first world problem...

Cheers, and enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

Good call. Copper is even worse than silver for oxidation.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, the thing is those mediocre spades that he's changed for the originals aren't even pure copper to begin with! I think they're probably some cheapo brass that are copper plated, and it's the plating that was coming off cause the oxidation to set in ... so definitely no good.

Will hopefully have the Moon Glo's done up in couple weeks.
Cheers, RJ

[roberto]

Hola, there are many manufactures offering cable terminations. Some time ago, I did use Vanpire...here is the link
https://www.cs1.net/products/vampire_wi ... ations.htm

Also Kimber Cable has:
https://kimber.com/series/diy/wbt

DHLabs has them too:
https://silversonic.com/products/connectors/

There are many good options and some have good prices too.

Happy listening!