Would you buy and ART Series 3 and How Much Should you Pay?

[jahatl513]

Its a simple question, Would you buy and ART Series 3, if you would then what is your reason or why, and finally how much in US Dollars Would you be willing to spend. I'm asking because I'm not sure how much they should go for or if they are that great? Assume I get that its not a GAT Series 2 and why they differ.

[ronenash]

It's a fantastic preamp with modern CJ sound. A bit less detail and clarity than the GAT. It's the only version of the ART that has teflon caps.
The only issue I had with the ART when i had it (mk2) is that it uses 10 tubes which will pretty much limit your choice of tubes to the stock EH6922 unless you want to spend crazy amounts of money.
Overall I think I would prefer a GAT series 1.
As for price, in good condition probably around $10k.

[roberto]

Hola. Well here in Costa Rica, a discontinued product, out of factory warranty, the price is about 50% of the retail price. If the ART Series 3 was $25.000.00, the selling used price is $ 12.500.00. There is a guide at the blue book audio. There, you will find the price of this marvelous preamplifier used. For getting a better price, the unit must have the carton box, manual, remote control, and being in mint condition. If you want to get more for it, you can offer a warranty for unit. You must cover all the expenses if something gets wrong with it.

Happy listening!

[Big Dog RJ]

Not too sure about how much of an improvement the series 3 was over the original ART preamp, which we had driving the Premier 8's with Apogee Divas.
Only one unit was ordered from Spore, we tried it in our main system, it was definitely fabulous but I couldn't really point out a significant improvement over the original. As a result it was sold to the respective customer and we kept the original for the next 20yrs! Nothing came close to it, not even the ACT2.

The GAT is a different sound, a lot clearer, smoother and that sort of thing. The GATS2 takes all of that to a slightly higher level of refinement and resolution but it's only marginal.

I can't remember the ART pre having 10 tubes, it was only 5 EH6922's wired in parallel that creates 10 output devices for both channels. Perhaps the series 3 had 10, I can't remember it was too long ago...

Anyway, if you're interested in an ART (whichever series) it's a marvelous preamplifier that launched CJ onto the SOTA platform in preamplification at its finest!
The only factor to consider is the age of the unit. We went through 2 service upgrades and that had to be conducted via the Spore distributor, even that was quite costly paying in our local currency.

I think if this was bought and maintained in the US, that would be a very different expense, and one gem of an item that can be retained in a very high quality system for decades. To me the ART pre was and is the ultimate preamplifier!

Cheers mate, have a good one
RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

Oh sorry mate, forgot to address the price question:
I would check on condition; life on tubes, and quality of caps, plus any upgrades made in the past... To whatever series either 2/3. Based on that, anything in the range of 10-12 grand would be fine. Anything more, I wouldn't risk it, as there are other fine CJ preamps available which are also newer models: ET5, ET7 & ET7S2. These are very fine preamps but not quite ART standard, just something more fresh.

If you happen to know the seller very well or through a personal contact, then perhaps that person has looked after the unit extremely well. In which case he's looking for that special price...
All the best, let us know how it goes.
RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

Sorry mate, my mistake on the tube layout... The ART pre did have 10 tubes and all of them were 6922's.
I remember at the time we had a thunder storm one night, and as CJ's pre's are always left on in standby mode, the main fuse went out plus for some reason one of the chassis on the Pre, leaving us to order 5 new tubes plus a transformer. The other channel was fine! If memory serves correct, it was the left channel that went out.

So the point I'm trying to make here is: the ART pre was a radical design, a true SOTA system in preamplifier topology with separate dedicated channels for absolute preamplification. The level of noise was there, plus it did have a certain amount of distortion or may I say "real live level distortion" as if listening to a live performance with some noise in the background... The usual hiss.
Maintenance is going to be an issue, especially with 10 tubes!

Fast forward that to over 20yrs, and now you have far more quieter preamps, with superb detail and resolution that allows more of the music to flow through... Starting with the ET5 towards the GAT, they are much more refined circuits and simpler in design. Plus they use less tubes!

Even the ACT2 with 4 tubes was just as noisy.

However, in saying all that, there's something very special about the tonality of the ART and the way it controls its channels for amplification. It's hard to explain, rather if you listened to one, you'll know what I mean. It's a very rare gem, and one fussy preamp to get going smoothly.
Apart from that, I guess the newer versions add more value and provide less hassles when it comes to service.
Cheers, RJ

[2bdude]

Big Dog sums up the ACT/ART very well. I would like to add that ET5/7 and GAT has improved bass control and improved dynamics IMO. The benefit of a lower noise floor is not to be understated especially when used with high efficiency speakers. The added benefit of dealing with finding the noisy tube is convenient to say the least.

[roberto]

Hola 2bdude,

I see your point. Having better noise floor, it is easy to find a bad noisy tube. I have to tell you that my ET-7 with the Classic One Twenty SE, their noise floor is better than -100 dB. I have test instruments where I can do a measurement of this noise floor. The amp, with shorted inputs (open circuits could give you a false measurement) the left channel is -108 dB and the right channel is -107.5 dB. This is much better than the specs of the amp. The ET-7, the left channel is -107.5 dB and the right is -107 dB. Both are better than specs. Besides, over -90 dB, the digital software usually the maximum top of S/N is -85 dB to - 90dB. The industry standards plays a safe point here.

Also, I am using a balanced power line conditioner. This is the real and truly way to go with a power conditioner. If you can, get at least 20 Amps power line conditioner. My AC is totally free of external contamination. Some people think that having this free of dirt AC supplying your system, it is not necessary, but you can not imagine what your are missing if you do not use a very clean AC feeding your electronics. Also a dedicated AC line of 30A feeding your AC to your system is a good idea.

Please excuse to hi-jack the thread...but I think it is good to have this info on hand, specially with the quality goods that you are talking about here.
I wish to you a very happy listening!

[2bdude]

My point on finding noisy tube was that only 1 tube could be the issue on ET7 or ET5. The GAT is the same as each channel only has 1 tube!

[Big Dog RJ]

2bdude,
You can say that again!

It was no easy task looking for the noisy one or shall I say the "chosen one" or sometimes more than one!
Even on the ACT2, after a while of placing the tubes in each slot to check and go in a Merry go round, was such a pain, at the end of the testing I'd have a neck pain!

You can imagine the tube rotation on the ART, oh golly no! But that's the whole point I guess, to get into this trouble for the love of audio. I guess it's OK when you're much younger but now, forget it! I'm very happy just with either the one or a pair of tubes for the pre to maintain.

That noise, extra hiss in the background, and sometimes that hiss can go funny on stats like a musical snake doing a dance...
But now I've tried nearly every possible preamp combination I could lay my hands on, and the only one which is dead silent so far is the pv15, and that's what I'm using!

I've got an ET7 right now on trial and although it sounds fabulous with the LP125m's, it has that annoying hiss!
The last ones I tried were the ET5 & ET3se, again same issue however the ET3se wasn't too shabby.
Overall, still the pv15 is far quieter and I still prefer those Mullard 8080's. I'll wait a bit and assess later.

Getting back to the ART, considering the experience I've had with it, plus the ACT2, all I can say is that if you're willing to put up with all the drama/hassles these very fine preamps offer, then they are absolute SOTA, no doubt!

Having said that, simplicity, ease of maintenance, chosing the right tube- I would highly recommend the newer ET series. Obviously the GAT is right up there but believe me, it does have a certain level of tube hiss. Perhaps chosing the right types may help, I wouldn't know. I would just prefer to plug it in and enjoy the music.
Cheers, RJ

[2bdude]

RJ
I use the ART150 with the ET7 and it is dead quite on my Avantgarde Duos! I use that 88 tube that CJ is selling. Even with my ear at the speaker only a faint hiss. No tube preamp I have used was this quite.I will add that the ART150 with all that power on horns is not to be over looked.The combination is stunning. I have stated before all my single ended designs are sold or in the closet. The combination from CJ is beyond my wildest dreams. I use no power conditioning and still dead quite.I had issues with many of tubes in the ET5 but nothing but silence from the 7.
I will be able to report on the ET7 series late November (out of town until then). I cannot wait to hear it as you can imagine.
One last thing if I may add an opinion. In absolute terms the ACT2 series 1&2 and the ART all 3 series never had the bass control of the GAT or ET series. They may have been more colored or liquid, but for me the bass, dynamics and resolution of the latest designs for me is a game changer. Matching equipment is of course a tricky thing. The new CJ products still for me has enough mid magic with the added benefits.
Enjoy!!

[2bdude]

Sorry,
Clarification on my last post. Should read : I will be able to report on ET7 series 2 late November.