PV-12 vs PV-5 vs PV-8

[riffwraith]

Hi

I am the happy owner of a PV-12

I am looking to get my hands on another preamp, and in searching for a PV-12, I also see the PV-5 and PV-8. Can someone either tell me what the diff is, or point me to a resource that will tell me?

Thanks in advance.

[roberto]

Hola,

My liking is toward the PV-12. To me, it is a newer model than the other two, and has, to my ears, more CJ magical sound. It has more refined sound, and has more resolution and the previous models. The stage is wide and very steady. The musical instruments and voices are projected with an incredible realism. Please understand that this is my liking and might not necessary it has to be yours too. Try to do and audition before you make the decision. All CJ products have its quality signature. You can not go wrong with any of those.

I recently upgrade a PV-5, this model has over 37 years and sings as beautiful as a canary. Yup, you still have replacement parts for this model. There is a power supply mod, including the new power supply caps and resistors. Also the regulator stage, its a discrete circuit, no IC regulator. All is done by three transistors and zener diodes.

Happy listening!

[admin]

I'm going to 2nd what Roberto said. I would go with the PV-12 if I had the choice. Now I have to give disclosure here, I own the PV-12, so take everything I say with a grain of salt. I think the PV-12 is just an amazing preamp. This does not mean the PV-5 or PV- aren't top-notch, they are, but I think the PV-12 is a step above. Beyond purely the sound, the PV-12 is a newer unit so you are most likely going to have fewer issues with parts failure.

At the end of the day, you can't really go wrong with either model but my opinion would be to go with a PV-12 all things being equal.

[jeffreybehr]

Hi

I am the happy owner of a PV-12

I am looking to get my hands on another preamp, and in searching for a PV-12, I also see the PV-5 and PV-8. Can someone either tell me what the diff is, or point me to a resource that will tell me?

Thanks in advance.

Probably you know of this, but just in case you don't...
https://conradjohnson.com/vintage-conra ... -products/

[admin]

And likewise, their current line:

https://conradjohnson.com/current-products/

[mgttr]

I'm going to 2nd what Roberto said. I would go with the PV-12 if I had the choice. Now I have to give disclosure here, I own the PV-12, so take everything I say with a grain of salt. I think the PV-12 is just an amazing preamp. This does not mean the PV-5 or PV- aren't top-notch, they are, but I think the PV-12 is a step above. Beyond purely the sound, the PV-12 is a newer unit so you are most likely going to have fewer issues with parts failure.

At the end of the day, you can't really go wrong with either model but my opinion would be to go with a PV-12 all things being equal.

I have a PV-12AL which I happily used for two years (with some nice Brimar CV4003 tubes). I was quite pleased with the sound of the PV-12AL until I recently picked up a used Audio Research LS17SE. The LS17SE pretty much slays the PV-12 in all aspects (especially the bass power and the realism of vocals). I would say though that in this case it's a matter of "you get what you pay for". The PV-12 is a fine preamp at its price point - the LS17SE I just got was twice the price of the PV-12 (both new and used prices), so I would naturally expect it to sound better.

[riffwraith]

Thanks all!

[roberto]

Hola mgttr,

If you want to smoke the AR preamp, you can do the upgrade for the PV-12 with the new resistors and teflon caps. The investment is about the twice of the value of the PV-12 without the upgrade. You will get: better detail and definition, wide stage with a truly sense of 3D, air between the instruments and voices. At the voices, there are no more throats with soreness. The size of the voices and the musical instruments are granted too. The bass is robust and very well defined. Also the noise floor is much better.

Happy listening!

[mgttr]

My primary reason to switch from the PV-12 to the ARC LS17SE was to get away from the gain matching problems I had with the PV-12. Between the PV-12 and my CJ Classic 60SE amp I had so much gain that I could barely crack open the volume control for normal listening levels. At this range on the volume pot, small movements resulted in large changes in volume, and even worse, the channel tracking was badly out of balance at that setting, forcing me to dial in a lot of correction with the balance control.

The ARC preamp has less gain, and more importantly, a remote controllable discrete step switched volume control that maintains proper channel tracking even at low settings. That was my primary goal in changing preamps - the improvements in sound quality are just a bonus for me. I have no desire to sink more money into the PV-12 at this point - while that might improve the sonics, it won't address the gain and volume control channel tracking issues.

BTW, I had asked the CJ service department if they could reduce the gain on my PV-12, and they suggested using Rothwell attenuators instead. Well I've already been down that path, and do not like at all the degradation those attenuators cause to the sound quality.

[roberto]

Hola mgttr,

Did you try another higher value of the volume control resistor? If you have a 250K ohms, use 500K ohms? This resistor is in series connection into the circuit. It will not harm to change it. This will make you to have more control with the intensity of the level. A logarithmic volume resistor with do too. Just thinking loud. I wish that I could have one PV-12 with me, so I can experiment a little bit. I would be a fun project.

On the other hand, I agreed with you with the stepped attenuator. You could build a PII attenuator too. Not so difficult to do.

Oh well, the good thing is that now you are happy with the ARC. It is a good preamp too. I had previously a lot of ARC products, and ended with the Ref 5.

Happy listening!

[mgttr]

I considered modifying the PV-12, or paying somebody to do it (I'm not as interested in doing major mods on my equipment as I used to be). But it still wouldn't get me the remote control volume that the ARC preamp has, which is something I've been wanting for many years. I had a good time with the PV-12, but I'm happy now with the LS17SE. The LS17SE also has balanced inputs and outputs, which gives me something more to experiment with (my DAC has balanced outputs). From the reviews I've read, the balanced inputs offer some performance improvement over the unbalanced inputs, so I've got a pair of balanced interconnects on order to try it out.

[roberto]

I wonder why Conrad Johnson does not believe in balanced inputs and outputs. Do you know who is Mr. Roger Sanders? He is an engineer that makes a lot of extraordinary electronic goods and also electrostatic speakers. Here is his link: http://sanderssoundsystems.com

At this technical white papers, he writes about balanced and single ended: He believes that both media are good, because he claims that he can not hear a difference between balanced and single ended...but this capture my attention: at almost of the bottom of the article, he claims this too:

..." So in summary, from a practical standpoint, it really doesn't matter whether you use balanced or unbalanced operation in most home audio systems. Both will sound identical to human hearing even though balanced operation has slightly more distortion and noise.

Personally, I prefer the simplicity and purity of unbalanced operation even though I will freely admit that I cannot hear any difference between the two. I only use balanced operation when I need to eliminate external noise, such as when doing live recording"...

It is a never known land...please, tell us your findings. And of course I do understand your needs and your liking. Perhaps I write sometimes rude, and this is not my intention...my English is not too good to express myself much better. Please excuse me! All I want is to help.

Happy listening!

[mgttr]

It is a never known land...please, tell us your findings. And of course I do understand your needs and your liking. Perhaps I write sometimes rude, and this is not my intention...my English is not too good to express myself much better. Please excuse me! All I want is to help.

Happy listening!

It's all good, Roberto. I appreciate your enthusiasm and desire to help others.

[roberto]

Thanks mgttr,

It is good to know that everything is OK. I must confess that I have a Spanish to English dictionary while I am writing. Sometimes, a direct translation is not what I want to say. All I wish to you guys, is to have patience to me...

By the way, I have a lot of service experience with ARC. My previous preamp was the model Reference Five. I had service most all ARC models...I did modified a VT-100MKIII with much better resistors and caps...coping what Conrad Johnson is doing: superb high quality parts!. I did sound very good, using the KT-120s output tubes. I did buy them at a very low price. Reason? They needed service.

The VT-100 had a severe burned at the printed circuit board. Because of the high current voltage that goes into the printed circuit board, one tube had a big short circuit, causing to have the pcb glass fibre at a point to be conductive. With the aid of a Dremel tool saw, I did cut all the burned area and re-do all the circuit board again with desoldering 1cm wide string of copper. I lifted 1mm from the PCB for about 10cm long. It was a good job, and worked perfectly. ARC is a good product but the service dept only supports the new goods...old goods are orphans. Hard to service.

The Reference Five preamp, needed a new tube at the power supply. You measure the tube and the tester showed that it was ok, but it was not. I did change all the tubes, and one IC on one channel that was making a funny noise like cracking eggs, and that was it...it was a very deal for both of them. Great good sound. But my new Conrad Johnson new toys belong to another far galaxy.

Happy listening@

[mgttr]

Your experience with the VT-100 sounds similar to one that I had. Long ago I had a Classic Audio CA-260 tube amp. This was a George Kaye design, a limited edition dual mono amp built with a stash of NOS McIntosh power and output transformers that he had come across. It used Chinese KT-88 output tubes which were pretty much time bombs back then. The screen grids would short out and when they did they would blow up the amplifier, taking out a lot of components and vaporizing a lot of PCB traces. I had to rebuild both channels after tube failures caused catastrophic damage (like a firecracker going off when the boards blew!). It was a good sounding amp (George Kaye is a reputable audio designer) but certainly not a robust one.

[roberto]

I do know what do you mean Sir, in the late 90s, Mr James Saxon had brought here in Costa Rica a lot of tube and SS gear. I had the opportunity to listen hi end brands that I never thought that they do exist. Cary Audio, VTL, Bel Canto, ARC, Mesa Boogie Baron, McIntosch, Aronov, Sonic Frontiers, Jolida, Carver tube amps, Golden Tube, among others that I can't remember and were brought here. I listened all them and of course, I choose ARC, Sonic Frontiers, Cary Audio, Bel Canto, among the best to my ears...at that time I had my workshop with all these fantastic brands. So, I saw inside which brands had top notch quality parts. Also I leaned which brands were doing a lot of research to newer electronic designs. ARC was one of them.

At that time, I had Conrad Johnson MV-50s wired as mono blocks. Solo a Premier Four, this was my favourite. It was using the 6CA7/EL34 power tubes, and amplifier with incredible magic. In the year 2000, my Dad passed, and my mom got sick. I had to sell some of my belongings for her...including all my CJ gear. Well, it worth it, because I could have her with us more time, until she passed too in 2009. I still have my dads pre, a C22 McIntosch in well working condition. He had the LS 310 Synthesis, he had Teac and Revox open reels, with a Thorens TT. He loved the music too.

I do not know why I am telling all this...but being us old audio wolves, and servicing our goods, is something that other members perhaps had done this too. I did made a lot of mods...and this might like you to know. I found a remote volume analogue control. It works with a motor that moves the variable resistor. Easy to install, and you could put a logarithmic variable resistor to make longer volume control. A good new goal...perhaps might work.

Happy listening!

[mgttr]

I wonder why Conrad Johnson does not believe in balanced inputs and outputs. Do you know who is Mr. Roger Sanders? He is an engineer that makes a lot of extraordinary electronic goods and also electrostatic speakers. Here is his link: http://sanderssoundsystems.com

At this technical white papers, he writes about balanced and single ended: He believes that both media are good, because he claims that he can not hear a difference between balanced and single ended...but this capture my attention: at almost of the bottom of the article, he claims this too:

..." So in summary, from a practical standpoint, it really doesn't matter whether you use balanced or unbalanced operation in most home audio systems. Both will sound identical to human hearing even though balanced operation has slightly more distortion and noise.

Personally, I prefer the simplicity and purity of unbalanced operation even though I will freely admit that I cannot hear any difference between the two. I only use balanced operation when I need to eliminate external noise, such as when doing live recording"...

It is a never known land...please, tell us your findings. And of course I do understand your needs and your liking. Perhaps I write sometimes rude, and this is not my intention...my English is not too good to express myself much better. Please excuse me! All I want is to help.

Happy listening!

Roberto, I got my balanced interconnects today and thought I'd pass along my initial impressions. These are Shunyata Venom XLR interconnects, 1 meter long, replacing Shunyata Venom RCA interconnects. I installed them between the Bryston BDA-3 DAC and the ARC LS17SE preamp (my C-J Classic 60SE amp unfortunately does not offer balanced inputs). I put on a recording that I was very familiar with - Madeleine Peyroux's Secular Hymns (a 26/96 download from HDTracks). From the very beginning I was struck by an immediate improvement in the ability to resolve individual instruments and voices as clearly separate sound sources, instead of everything being mashed together in the sound field. My second impression was of increased clarity, as I was able to clearly understand lyrics that had been somewhat vague previously.

Those are just my quick observations based on one album. As with any change to the system, I've found I need to listen to many different albums over two or three listening sessions to form a complete understanding of what impact the changes have made to the overall sound. My initial impression of the balanced interconnects is quite good however. By the way, I've put my ear right up against the speakers with nothing playing and I can't make out any difference in the background noise (hiss and hum) between the new balanced cables and the old unbalanced ones.

[roberto]

Good for you my new friend mgttr,

I wish to you the same thing that happened to me with the ET-7 and the Classic One Twenty SE. This is the first time that I do not have any complaint over the quality of my sound. I am rediscovering all my music...again, please, keep us posted regarding your improvements and sound quality.

A very happy listening!