PFR volume behavior

[artm]

Can someone who has a PFR test it to see:

put the volume control at 11 o'clock
press mute with remote
press volume down with remote

Does your volume knob react or not?

Thanks

[Big Dog RJ]

What's the purpose of this activity? What is it you're trying to gain or figure out?

I did own the PFR preamp many years ago, partnered it with the Prem11A, and Prem12's. Then moved onto the Prem8A's with the PFR for a short while, until we closed on the ART pre-amplifier.

I remember it well but would first like to know what's happening with this particular request...

RJ

[admin]

I'm guessing he wants to know if the mute button can be overridden by the volume button?

[roberto]

My guess, It will not act. Only if you press the + will act.
Happy listening!

[artm]

I've had this for years. After a recent repair or a Vishay and replacement of caps, I'm experiencing a weird issue not present before:

1. When in mute, pressing the remote volume down (once or continuously) does not move the knob. Signal is recognized, mute LED stays on, no response. I need to unmute to continue volume down.

2. When in mute, pressing the remote volume up (once or continuously), signal is recognized, mute LED stays on, no response. Stopping and re-pressing volume up does then responds correctly and mute LED turns off.

Someone else mentioned an issue with the PFR serial 330X version. The mainboard? I haven't been able to get or find any info on this but it may be related to my issue.

[Big Dog RJ]

Ok, now I understand what's happening, seems a bit out of the ordinary at first but I think this is normal.

However, all I can say is having owned this preamp, there are a few things to note:

1. The PFR does not have a power switch. Therefore it's meant to be left on at all times 24/7 unless you're going away for a long vacation, where you would shut off and unplug the entire system to be safe.

2. The Mute button is actually the power button. So when not listening to music, simply press the mute, this acts as a power saving mode and the PFR goes into standby mode. When listening to music again, press the mute and all circuitry is re-activated, plus the PFR is already warmed up nicely being left on, so this is a normal operation.

3. Once this mute button is activated pressing anything on the remote should not activate anything else. You can use the remote to press mute, holding the mute for a few seconds will actually power on & off the PFR. It's very simple to use but a bit cheap looking and feel to it. CJ should have supplied a better quality remote.

4. Only when you unplug the PFR by disconnecting from the AC mains, everything shuts off. When you reconnect main power, whiles the preamp is warming up, the mute LED flashes for approx 90 seconds or less, can't remember exactly but it takes a while...

Important **NOTE**

5. Whiles the LED is flashing on the front panel during cold start up (i.e when plugging in the PFR for the first time) during the warm up duration, the level control will automatically go all the way down before the PFR is ready to fully operate. This is a safety feature that allows the PFR to reduce volume by itself, safe guarding against loud transients during power amplifier start up, also protecting your speakers.

**Try point 5 as noted above and see if this happens**

This happens only when disconnecting and reconnecting the PFR from the AC mains power. So whatever point you left the level setting at, during this initial start up process, the volume will always go to zero.

*** If this happens then your PFR is working perfectly! ***

There's no need to stress and worry about circuit boards. Just remember to always turn the level setting down before pressing mute. You don't have to turn it all the way down just don't leave it at a high setting!

The PFR is similar to CJ's new preamps, where it remains at the level settings the user left it at. Only when disconnecting and reconnecting from AC mains, the preamp resets to a lower level. It's a marvellous design and was made ahead of its time. The PFR is designed on CJ's premier standards using high quality parts. The only thing is it was never named as a "premier" product...

All CJ preamps do this, with the exception of the older PV series and Classic series preamps. It's a safety feature built-in by CJ design.

If your PFR does not do the level resetting as described in point 5, then I'm afraid you have a problem. So try it first just to make sure.

Hope that helps, I have a feeling your PFR is working fine.

Best, RJ

[artm]

3. Once this mute button is activated pressing anything on the remote should not activate anything else. You can use the remote to press mute, holding the mute for a few seconds will actually power on & off the PFR. It's very simple to use but a bit cheap looking and feel to it. CJ should have supplied a better quality remote.

Not so: pressing once volume up turns off mute; pressing volume up continuously turns off mute but does not increse volume, a second pressing is required for that. Also, holding mute for seconds does not cycle power; it simply turns off mute. As for the original remote, I use a 3rd part taht learns, as I didn't want to kill the original. FYI, the symptoms I show occur with both remotes.

5. Whiles the LED is flashing on the front panel during cold start up (i.e when plugging in the PFR for the first time) during the warm up duration, the level control will automatically go all the way down before the PFR is ready to fully operate. This happens only when disconnecting and reconnecting the PFR from the AC mains power.

This works on power on but not on power off - the volume stays where its' at. Are you sure it resets even then? I don't recall that and it's not an issue at all. After all, it works on power on where it counts.

The real issue it the need to unmute before volume down. That's a new symptom and a flaw: I'm supposed to pause the source just to turn down the volume safely by remote? Nope.

[roberto]

Yes to me, everything is OK. You now have the latest version of the remote control installed in your pre/remote. It is a little different than the previous config, but this one is more accurate for moving around.
If you want to know more about it, why don't you address your questions direct to: service@conradjohnson. com. They will explain to you better what they did. To me all make sense.

Happy listening!

[artm]

roberto: What are you talking about? I had nothing done to the remote control section. I'm using the same OEM remote and a learning remote for the past 12 years.

[artm]

I have just been told from another user that my unit behaves like his, with most of RJ's bullet points met (the only one not is the resetting of the volume to all the way down when unplugging unit).

I believe for now all is well unless someone else reports with different behavior.

Even so, I do think it's a bug that the remote volume can't turn down while staying in mute. Again, I would have sworn this was happening all these years. Oh well...

[Big Dog RJ]

Artm,

I think your PFR is fine according to your description.

I was perhaps a bit unclear on my final point in terms of unplugging the unit. When disconnecting from AC mains the volume level does not move, it will remain at the level it was at. It's only when plugging into AC mains and powering up for the first time, whiles the LED flashes the volume level will automatically drop to zero by default.

As I mentioned before, the PFR does not have a separate power switch/button. The mute button is the power button and when engaged the PFR goes into standby mode by default. It's meant to be left on at all times in mute mode when not listening.

As long as it does not add any sort of distortion into the power amplifier and runs smoothly without interference to the power amplifier's input stage, things should be fine.

The other thing is, was just wondering why you need to pause source and turn volume down? Is it that you're experiencing a loud transient when switching sources or when offing the speed controller on your TT, that is if you're using a TT rig?

If so, I used to experience this as well but it can be sorted out by turning volume level down first, then mute. Then safely change your source inputs via the input selector or when changing sides for LP's. That should be OK and normal operation, without causing unwanted noise, loud pops & bangs...

One thing that is a bit tricky with the PFR is that because it doesn't have a separate power button, each time mute is engaged, the active circuitry goes into standby.

Therefore, during listening sessions the PFR is not meant to be in mute mode unless you're listening session is over, and you want to shut down the system. Like I said, if you are experiencing loud pops or noises during intervals whiles changing tracks or source input, turning down the volume level will certainly help.

I know it's a bit annoying but better to get it right and be safe. You want to look after your system and not expose it to unnecessary events during listening sessions.

What are the concerns you're having and does it affect the overall sound? Is the PFR causing any other distortions that are picked up through the speakers?

Obviously for peace of mind, you could definitely get in contact directly with CJ and see what they say. I'm sure someone there will know more about it but not sure if they would still offer advice being a much older unit... they don't have the resources as compared to 20yrs ago.

Anyway, you can try for what it's worth, I'm sure JF would know this area well and how to go about it.

Eventually, hope you find out if there's something wrong or not. Best, RJ

[artm]

The unit was repaired (not by CJ) to replace a failed Vishay and the electrolytic caps were replaced. That's the only issue I've had with it in 12 years.

I was without it for a couple months while undergoing the repair. After receiving it, that's when I thought the volume/mute behavior was changed.

Again, when a digtal track changes and the volume is excessive the quickest solution was to mute it, then lower the volume and then unmute. I thought I could do that pre-repair. It certainly seems logical unless your explanation of the "real" function of mute is correct, putting the unit in standby. The manual does NOT support that, stating only that mute silences the output - nothing further.

If anyone else has a PFR and it can do what I thought mine could, then mine is fauty. So far, no one has reported that.

I guess it's time to ask CJ themselves and get the full story...

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, understood your explanation and the previous function of the mute, level setting etc., before the repair.

I'm not going to explain anything further on that issue as what's already been stated. Even if it's an issue to begin with...

What I'm trying to figure out is why would a repair on the caps & resistors cause an issue with mute function? That's a CJ question and answer.

I've also had quite a similar repair / capacitor replacement done on the PFR as well and a bit more of an issue now that you touched upon it. After a few years, I experienced a massive pop noise whenever mute was engaged during power on and power amplifiers powered up. The amps at the time were big Manley 350's Designer's Reference Series built by David Manley at (VTL). It turned out to be a cap leakage of DC offset! Nearly all the caps started to fail one by one... at the end the unit was sent to Spore for a full cap upgrade plus resistors were also changed. However, this did not change remote or mute functions, everything was normal.

LJ himself sent me a personal note, with sincere apologies, stating that a very reliable component that they thought was reliable has actually failed...

My Spore dealer had to redo the caps in nearly every PFR unit sold during that time. One of their chief service techs, Ed Detimier, who was with the company for several decades, was very helpful to identify that one of the main causes of this particular problem of capacitors failing was the extreme humidity we had in cmb. Our humidity levels are in the upper 90%, and during monsoons it rains! So I was told, this was also the cause for panel type speakers to fail as well, corrosion on wiring with stats and ribbobs didn't last too long, let alone veneered cabinets peeling off and warping. It was an absolute nightmare, nothing survived more than a year or two.

Thanks to newer and better materials, these components and gear have a much longer life span now, especially in tropical climates.

BTW, where are you located? What's your climate like?

Let us know what CJ advises...
Best, RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

Hey Robbo my good mate,

Hope you're keeping well and enjoying those fine tunes through those mighty fine stats. I just remembered that Costa Rica climate is almost similar to cmb, which was my home town..., Just checking if any of your customers had similar issues with caps failing in such climates?

Interesting to know.
Cheers mate, RJ

[roberto]

Hey Robbo my good mate,

Hope you're keeping well and enjoying those fine tunes through those mighty fine stats. I just remembered that Costa Rica climate is almost similar to cmb, which was my home town..., Just checking if any of your customers had similar issues with caps failing in such climates?

Interesting to know.
Cheers mate, RJ

Everything is OK here. We have two weather stations, the wet season, that last 8 months, and the dry season. We are in the wet season until December. Now it is raining like cats and dogs.

The pandemia is hitting us hard too. The wife and the kids said: you are not allow to go out...so I am doing what a male wolf will do and this is what I am doing everyday: I go to the back yard, and sniff some flowers, see the sky, have a deep breath, then go inside to the kitchen and grab a couple of knives, then go to the working table outside, and with japanese wet stones, I sharpen them. Once they are really sharp, I go back to the kitchen and leave the knives there. I have a glass of good water, then go upstairs, go to my batcave, and turn on my system, and spend the rest of the day, playing guitar or listening to the music. At night, I have a scotch or good wine, as spend some time with the female wolf, watch some tv and have a snack and then back to the cave.

I just love what I am doing now.

Happy listening!

[Big Dog RJ]

Hey Robbo mate, sounds like you're living the dream!

As we Aussies say, good on ya mate!

Sniffing flowers is certainly alright as long as you're not sniffing illegal substances in the backyard... look out!

Enjoying music with a couple glasses of red is definitely a very needed audio accessory, apart from good cables.
Cheers mate, have a good one.
RJ

[roberto]

Hey RJ.

First of all, I ask a for a forgiveness, because we are hijacking the thread. I am older enough to know what its illegal what it is not. Well, my truth is, I like to be awaken, sober, with my mind super clean, and trying that the problems ahead with the pandemia, will affect us the less possible. Listening to the music, the wolf inside me is calmed as a lamb. I howl once and then, I can't help it. It is my naturalness. The good thing is that this wolf still can hear nice and clear.

Happy listening, and stay safe, stay at home and listen a lot of good music!

Woof, woof,
Roberto.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes Robbo agreed mate. Old wolves need a few glasses of red before and after howling...

We're not hijacking the thread, we're just waiting for the OP's feedback from CJ HQ... so in the meantime it's time to howl.

I sincerely believe his PFR is operating normally and there's nothing to worry. I loved the PFR, it outperformed many other preamps costing twice as much at the time. It was also one of those preamps that could easily uplift the performance of any quality system, replacing many well known pre-amplifiers. The only issue I had with it were those caps failing one by one... That was about the time I ventured off CJ for a short while and used other well known brands.

Hey Robbo mate, I asked you earlier in my post about similar capacitors failing in your climate over there... you didn't quite answer the question. Maybe you were too busy howling!

Here's a good one my wifey just bought at some bottle shop, it's a French brand, not bad!
We're in curfew at the moment but my work always continues as full steam ahead, part of essential services.

Cheers mate, hope to hear some news about the PFR.
Best, RJ

[roberto]

RJ,
No problem with the capacitors. CJ works fine here.

Happy listening!

[artm]

It appears that my unit is working properly, confirmed by another user.

I have not heard back from CJ. It's only been 5 days since my inquiry so we'll see.