Cj pv5 vs pv8 vs pv12

[Kenshiro80]

Hi guys new to the forum!

Im looking for a new preamp ive heard nothing but good stuff about the pv5 sadly i have not been able to find one for sale i posted a wtb ad on the section of the forum. I wanted to know what my alternatives are compared to a pv5.
Cj says the pv8 was the successor to the pv5 and i know the pv12 is much more different.
So my question to you guys is i would appreciate some opinions and inputs on the differencea between these three amps

Thanks again

[AnotherJohnson]

PV 5
PV 8
PV11

In my opinion, from the perspective of a vinyl guy, this is the orderIng, from great to greater to greatest, of the PV preamps.

I owned them all. I kept them all going , literally for decades after their introductions.

I could be happy with any of them had I never experienced the ET series.

The PV 12 is great too, but CD pushed focus on phono rearward. It may not matter in this day and age where the best phono cartridges are Low Output MC.

One of my incentives for abandoning PV series gear was the lack of Starter switches, pots and balance control spares. The PV 5 is now about 35 years old, and the others aren’t far behind.

You may not need them. Or maybe CJ has found some more.

Good luck with your search.

[Kenshiro80]

Ok awesome thanks for the input so you would say in your experience the pv8 is a definite improvement over the pv5 in both line stage and phono?
Does the pv8 loose the warm tube bloom thats signature with cj and the pv5?

Thanks again

[Kenshiro80]

Also and i know this is a cj forum but just curious since my main system has a audio research sp3a does anyone have experience on how this cj preamps stack compared to a sp3a in phono and line stage? Thanks again

[admin]

All great choices but I agree with AnotherJohnson that the further you go up the chain the better. I own a PV12 and rather happy but it's the line stage version so I can't comment on the phone stage (although I hear it's pretty good). I find that many people use a separate phono preamp so that is always an option.

[AnotherJohnson]

I have had several Audio Research components.

I think the PV5 sounds better to me than the SP3.

But both do not sound as transparent or real as current Audio Research or CJ competition.

The PV5 was groundbreaking in the mid 80’s when it appeared. Several chose it as their reference preamp. But a lot of water has spilled over the dam since then, and bloom may be a good way to describe the old sound.

The 8 is not neutral, but it is more neutral than the 5. I had the special CJ proprietary factory cap job done on my 8, and I liked the changes.

If you’re building a nostalgic system, you will like any of them. To my ears they all beat the 80’s era Audio Research gear.

[Kenshiro80]

Oh great thank you for all the pointers yeah i am trying to build a vintage system this will be paired up with my marantz 170dc amplifier. I have a friend who has a pv9a since i know what that sounds like how is that one compared to a pv5, pv8 and sp3?

Thanks again for all the replies getting closer to my decision

[AnotherJohnson]

My opinion is

8 - 5 - 3

But we’re really in the domain of personal preference and taste.

I used to run a McIntosh C22 with Mc240s, Garard turntable, and McIntosh MR71 tuner. I loved them. They were vintage bucket list components when I owned them in the early to mid 80’s.

The wave of great new tube gear that was presented In the 80’s ruined me for the old McIntosh, as pretty, and quiet, and full featured as it was.

Another wave crashes over every decade.

I am afraid to try the ART 300 and GAT 2.

[Kenshiro80]

My opinion is

8 - 5 - 3

But we’re really in the domain of personal preference and taste.

I used to run a McIntosh C22 with Mc240s, Garard turntable, and McIntosh MR73 tuner. I loved them. They were vintage bucket list components when I owned them in the early to mid 80’s.

The wave of great new tube gear that was presented In the 80’s ruined me for the old McIntosh, as pretty, and quiet, and full featured as it was.

Another wave crashes over every decade.

I am afraid to try the ART 300 and GAT 2.

So if got it right you say in your preference from best to worst it goes
Pv8
Pv5
Sp3
?

How do they compare to the sound of a pv9a?

Thanks again

[AnotherJohnson]

The 8 replaced the 5.

The 11 replaced the 8.

The intermediate numbers were less expensive with fewer features in my neck of the woods.

People who own them like them.

In my opinion, the state of the caps, tubes, switches, and pots are probably the most important issue at this stage.

I think you need to audition the specific unit ... and seriously, your own taste is most important. If it sounds good to you, it is good for you.

That old McIntosh gear I sold off years ago is still being chased by some folks.

I note that asking prices are high on the vintage CJ gear too compared to ten years ago.

[Kenshiro80]

The 8 replaced the 5.

The 11 replaced the 8.

The intermediate numbers were less expensive with fewer features in my neck of the woods.

People who own them like them.

In my opinion, the state of the caps, tubes, switches, and pots are probably the most important issue at this stage.

I think you need to audition the specific unit ... and seriously, your own taste is most important. If it sounds good to you, it is good for you.

That old McIntosh gear I sold off years ago is still being chased by some folks.

I note that asking prices are high on the vintage CJ gear too compared to ten years ago.

Ok i can see what your saying they are all great units and unique and personal preference is really where are now one last question

Which ones would say is the more tube or warm sounding preamp and less neutral between the sp3 and pv5?

Thanks again!!

[AnotherJohnson]

If they’re both in restored original condition, the PV5 will have the characteristic CJ warmth, and an uncanny palpable presence in the phono stage.

If they’re not, and this is the more likely case, you will want to audition them.

[Kenshiro80]

If they’re both in restored original condition, the PV5 will have the characteristic CJ warmth, and an uncanny palpable presence in the phono stage.

If they’re not, and this is the more likely case, you will want to audition them.

Ok thanks i unfortunately cant audition them wish i could. What are your thoughts on the pv2ar compared to all the models mentioned above? Thanks again

[AnotherJohnson]

We’re really talking ancient history now.

Gosh, I would not trust my recollection.

All of these sounded wonderful in comparison to other things extant when they were introduced.

All of these have shortcomings that bother me in comparison to modern gear.

All of these can be fun to own and fun to listen to.

If you stop and consider it, every successful new model has held its own or advanced a bit compared to its predecessor.

All of these were successful models when introduced.

If I had to have a vintage system, I’d base it on a recapped PV11.

But YMMV. This is your dream system, and whatever you choose, if it’s nostalgia your after, you’ll find it.

If, on the other hand you’re dreaming of sonic magic, no matter what vintage components you choose, you WILL have obvious upgrade paths. Every decade of advances are incredibly real. I thought I was at the ultimate with my PV5, Electron Kinetics Eagle 2a, VPI HW19, Souther Triquartz, Clearaudio Veritas, and Thiel CS2s in the mid 80’s. Boy was I wrong!

[antaresbluespirit]

Hi to everybody!

I own three CJ preamp for years PV10A,PV8 and PV 9A....(collector!)

Both have the phono option and the 8 and 9a where the ultimate version having a high output level

the 11 and 12 had the phono in option but the out put level were lower than the previous generation...( using standard valve easy to be replaced)

the listening subjective change may be the " weight of the note" and the dynamic but the general musicality in term of rythm and treeble are similar and respect the CJ sound...

Current generation are more accurate and noise has been reduced

PV5 PV8 and PV9a were also fitted with common and rare 5951 valve in the line circuit that represents the main concern to survive in the long term ,unfortunately, for the lovers of these venerable machines using" the button to turn" in their face plate...

cheers

Raymond

[mpw]

I have the PV-12 with the phono stage used with the Linn Lp-12, Spendor LS3/5 speakers and the old MV-45 amp. I think
it sounds great. I might need a better cartridge for the Lp-12 to reach the PV-12's potential. I have had the PV-12 for about 20 yrs. with
no problems (so far !!).

[goonybird]

I have the PV-12 with the phono stage used with the Linn Lp-12, Spendor LS3/5 speakers and the old MV-45 amp. I think
it sounds great. I might need a better cartridge for the Lp-12 to reach the PV-12's potential. I have had the PV-12 for about 20 yrs. with
no problems (so far !!).

Sold all my LS3/5A's years back due to Home Cinema. I was thinking how good they must sound with CJ gear as its seems to be classic "BBC" sound majoring on the midrange. Since getting CJ gear I don't think I can better it. Using a PV10A which was "Budget" but still way ahead of anything I have heard. If I change I would probably go PV12.
NB why is it people seem to thing an old unit becomes U/S due to lack of parts. I have restored a few bits and there are always parts that do the job to restore an item.

[admin]

CJ does have that magic that "home theater gear" can't attain. I highly recommend the PV12 if you have the chance to get one at a good price and in good condition.

[AnotherJohnson]

NB why is it people seem to thing an old unit becomes U/S due to lack of parts. I have restored a few bits and there are always parts that do the job to restore an item.

It’s pretty simple. Hearing is personal. Comparison shows differences. Individuals have their own values.

One can sometimes cobble together aftermarket parts to keep a PV preamp going. They’re not especially complicated.

If I did not compare the result to a proper new model, I’d be quite proud of myself for keeping the PV going, Chinese relays, pots, and switches and all.

But … at least in my case, the difference between the sound of a fully operative PV and ET is so dramatically in favor of the ET, that it was/is worth it to me to move on and embrace the 21st century efforts of CJ.

The main motivation for me is sonic, but I am also motivated to support CJ by buying new things. It’s a small operation, and new sales keep food in the larder.

YMMV, for a wide range of reasons. For some there is great pleasure in keeping old things working. For some the old sound is like vintage wine and they prefer it. For some there is absurdity in buying five figure audio components. Some can’t hear the difference, either because their other gear isn’t sufficiently resolving, or because their ear/brain processing doesn’t provide adequate discrimination to show it off. And some can hear the difference, but couldn’t care less.

You may know of other reasons. We all have our own. There really are no mysteries if you stop to think about it.

[bschott]

I have the pv11 and have had to do some restoration work to bring it up to what I consider top notch sounding. First off - recognize that these are older units that may have some breakdown of components. Caps, pots ,switches, etc can all go bad in older gear. Not to mention tubes... Here's what I did and you can take it with a grain of salt...

I replaced all resistors in the signal chain (not that many actually) with Takman Reys. If you really want to get in the weeds you could go with the newer Vishay Z expensive resistors. Haven't heard them but some swear they are the cat's meow. I like the Takmans. Also bypassed the Mode and Balance pot/swtiches with a twisted pair wire. in the pv11 all the signal and PSU caps are film so there was no need to replace them as they were all good. Did replace the PS electrolytic 4700uf 35 with a new Mundorf Low ESR Mylytic. However, because I like to tinker I replace the caps in the RIAA circuit with Jensen PIOS. Found them online for reasonable price and figured what the heck - if I hate them I'll just swap back to the original CJ films. fyi, all the pv11 caps are either CJ styrene or CJ polyP. They all sound pretty good so if you're happy with the sound they leave 'em in. The 2600pf and 8000pf Jensen PIOs in the phono circuit give a warmer and fuller presentation so for now I'm leaving them in Oh, and I also changed the original output coupling caps CJ 2mf + cj .15 Mf with 2uF Mulitcap RTX. So far I like the solidity that they bring to the sound but they are not fully broken in so time will tell. btw, those thing are huuuuge so I had to rig up bunch of tie wraps to keep them stable. Last but not least I replaced the tube sockets with gold plated ceramics which I think helped a lot. Those stock sockets were getting just ooold. So now the unit sounds really nice. Warm with a kick ass bass extension but transparent with an organic sound that I like.

Oh I also had to redo a lot of the solder joints in the PSU circuit and the phono circuit. Not sure why but I've heard that CJ pcbs tend to have this problem. I chased a couple of bad joints down and by now all is good. I think there was a bit of "you touch it you own it " going on there. Anyone who's worked on old electricity in houses will know what I'm talking about.

The thing about the CJ PVs with phono is that they're all a pretty simple 12AX7 circuit with a 5751 follower. I'm sure there's better resolving and fluid high gain tubes than the 12ax7 and some designers scoff at that tube. I'm not sure but to me they sound pretty good. Haven't heard other phono preamps with other tube topology so can't say if there's a nirvana I'm missing . The other issue is the CJ use of the 5751 tube in the phone circuit. That sucker is ridiculous pricing for NOS. Mine had one side making noises so I had to replace it. let's just say sticker shock set in. So I got a nice new Tung Sol from Upscale for a reasonable $$ and it sounds quite good. My tube compliment is Telefunken 12ax7s - the TS 5751 and then GE 6189s for the 12au7s in the phono and line out. So far so good.