Magnepan LRS

[admin]

Pretty impressive specs on those Monoblocks. Pretty attractive as well, I really like the Red/Crimson option. If anybody gets a chance to hear these, please report in.

[AnotherJohnson]

The Carver stuff has vigorous supporters, and vociferous detractors.

The supporters argue that the detractors are just jealous that Carver has made their expensive toys less necessary. The detractors argue that the supporters are tin eared gullible spec hounds.

Why are there no credible comparos by recognized reviewers?

Even the original Carver challenges (there were two, although Carver did not disclose the first one to Stereophile when the second was conducted) did not lead to any production unit comparisons after Carver released a product based on his copy of the CJ tube amps.

I’d love to hear the Carver 350. On paper it ticks so many boxes. But there’s no place anywhere close to me to hear them.

There is inventory extant. I could order a pair for $9.5k and do an in home test. But i hate to go through that kabuki dance. Nevertheless, it might be the only way. If I were dissatisfied with my amps, it might make sense. But I’m not.

[SteveFord]

I have NOT heard the big ones, I'd bet they sound like this little 275.
The people who do have them all seem happy with them.
What he did with the 275 is use really small transformers and then uses a 700V supply - so the primary on the output transformer is very high voltage but very low current.
I'm guessing same thing with the larger model but I'll find out for you.

What I've found with the 275 is it sounds really good, it will play as loud as you can stand it (in a small room) but it doesn't have the power for really large orchestral crescendos. You know The Beatles "A Day In The Life" off of Sgt Pepper where the brass really swells?
With my VTLs that'll make your jaw drop, with this little guy it just gets louder, it doesn't come popping out at you.
It doesn't have enough poop in reserve as they say in the audiophile press.

[AnotherJohnson]

I have NOT heard the big ones, I'd bet they sound like this little 275.
The people who do have them all seem happy with them.
What he did with the 275 is use really small transformers and then uses a 700V supply - so the primary on the output transformer is very high voltage but very low current.
I'm guessing same thing with the larger model but I'll find out for you.

What I've found with the 275 is it sounds really good, it will play as loud as you can stand it (in a small room) but it doesn't have the power for really large orchestral crescendos. You know The Beatles "A Day In The Life" off of Sgt Pepper where the brass. really swells?
With my VTLs that'll make your jaw drop, with this little guy it just gets louder, it doesn't come popping out at you.
It doesn't have enough poop in reserve as they say in the audiophile press.

I think that makes sense. We all listen with different criteria to define goodness. Maybe the 350 (which is into 4 ohms, like CJ) can do a better job than it’s little brother.

Incidentally, I was sorting CDs from boxes to shelves yesterday and ran across FZ’s Apostrophe’. I put it in the queue and played it.

It reminded me of my first listen when it was released. One of my friends thought it was incredible … I struggled to bear with it to the end. Just goes to show that we all have different criteria for the definition of goodness .

[SteveFord]

I love Apostrophe', he was delighted as it stiffened and ripped right through his sock!

I heard back and the little 275 and the larger 305s are voiced the same: "within the 275s power limits it's hard to tell them apart".

From reading a review in Tone magazine, I think it was, it's similar to an old Marantz tube amp and he shot for a beautiful sound - not like a modern tube amp where they shoot for the accuracy and control of SS but with a 3D soundstage and no glare.

After work I got busy and had the little Carver and the MF2275 to play with.
Here's the verdict:

Magnepan LRS speakers are too small to really do that orchestral crescendo in A Day In The Life.

conrad-johnson MF-2275 makes effortless power, better bass and more detail, soundstage is narrower and flatter

Carver 275 will play as loud as you can stand in a small room but it doesn't have that power in reserve for dynamics BUT it does have a 3D soundstage and is tonally more pleasing to listen to.

Where the hard work is performed:


The science experiment:


Got some new Kimber 12TC speaker cables to hook up and put that room back together so back to it.
P.S.
You could always write to Jeff at Tone Magazine, he's had conrad-johnson gear forever and he's the one who reviewed the Carver 305s. He could certainly tell you all about them.
He was talking about buying a pair of 305s but I don't know if he did or not.

[admin]

CJ, magnepan, and an APC... can't go wrong,... just like my system!

[AnotherJohnson]

It’s the Carver 350 that I am wondering about. The 305 was one of his early tube models … maybe the first for commercial sale.

Regarding the speakers not being up to the crescendo, that’s certainly a possibility. The room often plays a role in this too.

Regarding the flat narrow sound stage, there are so many places that this can go wrong, that it’s hard to offer thoughts.

The 2275 is capable of producing an excellent sound stage, but synergy with the room and the rest of the gear is in play.

Last night a 2275 came up for sale on usaudiomart. It was sold shortly after it appeared. $1200 was the asking price. Sounds hot to me.

[SteveFord]

It's possible my 2275 just needs more playing time, it spent most of its life in a box.
This weekend I'll hook it up to where an old Bryston is and give it a few hours.
I'm sure the Carver 350 sounds just like all the other models - TOOB sound.
If you like preamps with 6SN7 tubes you'll like the Carver.
I'll also bet he did the same thing across the board: small transformers, really high voltage, tubes set with really low bias.
Whether that's good or bad I don't know enough to say but he took a different approach when he designed these.

[AnotherJohnson]

You could always write to Jeff at Tone Magazine, he's had conrad-johnson gear forever and he's the one who reviewed the Carver 305s. He could certainly tell you all about them.
He was talking about buying a pair of 305s but I don't know if he did or not.

If it’s the JV review of the 305s, that was in TAS. He had CJ. He liked the 305s.

I think it’s good to have choices. I sound like a broken record (aka stuck in a locked groove), but we do not all hear alike.

Tone controls are still available on some preamps. Octave and third octave band equalizers are available too.

Maybe the quest is to perfectly match your gear choices so that you get the tonal balance that you like without destroying the “sound stage” in your listening environment.

[AnotherJohnson]

At one time I knew a motorcycle dealer who had been with Bob Carver in his hay day. He said his child had been used in some of the advertising to show how light the Carver amp was compared to the competition.

In any event, it was overall a bad experience… and it must have been for others too because his dealership failed.

To succeed in business over the long term, you have to be a straight shooter. Hype helps at the start to draw interest, but you have to be an honest broker to gain traction.

In the auto industry of 30+ years ago, the engineers used to say that “Marketing is where the rubber meets the sky.” Obviously to gain traction, the rubber needs to meet the road.

[Joe Appierto]

To succeed in business over the long term, you have to be a straight shooter. Hype helps at the start to draw interest, but you have to be an honest broker to gain traction.

Nicely put.

[SteveFord]

That little 275 took a drubbing on the measurements on audiosciencereview, I think it is?
Yet the people who work on them are measuring pretty close to the published specs.
Both camps are saying they're right.
One really concerning thing is the amp is not properly grounded, the third prong isn't hooked up to anything.
I think if I ever replace my old VTLs I'll go with newer VTLs or older conrad-johnson.
Stick with the stuff that weighs a ton and will melt an igloo.

[AnotherJohnson]

Just watch out for that yellow snow

[AnotherJohnson]

I took a look at the audio science review forum thread.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/foru ... nts.29271/

It’s less than a month old.

I am with the OP.

The Carver Challenges and follow on products which DID NOT SOUND LIKE THE LEGENDARY CONRAD JOHNSON TUBE AMPS THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO MIMIC, are enough data for anyone.
Free is the right price.

[SteveFord]

It's a shame, Bob knows better than to use undersized transformers.
I'll put that MF-2275 back into service for a bit and see if some time doesn't get it sound better.
It certainly has enough power and detail, it just has a bit of an edge to it which has me turning it down instead of turning it up.
If not, off they both go.

[AnotherJohnson]

The 2275 may be too neutral for your taste. It is pretty far from the “tube sweetness” that many think of when they enjoy vintage tubes. Vintage CJ tube sound and modern CJ tube sound are different, the latter being considerably more neutral, which I prefer myself … but it is a matter of taste.

[SteveFord]

Thrilling update:
After some back and forth with the esteemed designer of the Carver 275 over the ground plug that wasn't I've since sold it back to the fellow who assembled it at the week long get together they had back in 2018.
Basically, enthusiasts hang out at a rustic resort in the Smokey Mountains and eat, drink, shoot the breeze and build a project which is NOT for resale. Of course, people resold them and (even worse) Bob Carver put that little inexpensive DIY kit into production and that didn't go too well.

I put the 2275 up on some risers a fellow whipped up for me, plugged it straight into the wall and left it idling for the 4 days or so.
It's gotten a LOT better, that "I'm here to drive you crazy" sound is just about gone.
I was hoping it was just from sitting in a box for years and that appears to be the case.

Never being one to leave well enough alone, I'm thinking of putting the proceeds from that DIY Carver kit amp towards an older c-j tube amp. I've liked their preamps and phono stages well enough, I would think their tube amps would be quite good.
We'll see what happens.

[AnotherJohnson]

Tube amps are their wheel house.

If you can, get an SE model, or at least one with Teflon or other polymer capacitors just to avoid future maintenance. And check the plate fuses on arrival to be sure the former owner hasn’t installed the wrong ones.

The 2275 should continue to improve over time. It takes a while to break any of these things in.

[AnotherJohnson]

Carverfest amp camp

https://carveraudio.proboards.com/

Something for everyone.

[SteveFord]

I dropped in on a CarverFest one year during a motorcycle trip down the Blue Ridge Parkway.
One day was enough and the five star chef got drunk the night before and overslept so our breakfast consisted of two strips of bacon...
Are you ready? Let's get out of here.

That reminds me of my honeymoon: we simply HAD to stay at this motorcycle-only campground on the Blue Ridge Parkway as the owner was this world-renowed chef, it was simply to die for.
We get there, get set up and I go into their little cabin to pay the bill.
I hear the woman yakking away and I think she's on the telephone with someone so I sit down and start reading the paper.
I look up and she's standing there, nude; she wasn't on the phone, she was in the shower with her husband!
I wanted the Earth to swallow me up, I was so embarrassed because I felt like a Peeping Tom and the husband comes out wearing a towel and he starts screaming at me and all I wanted to do was pay my bill!
We ate some crackers from the vending machine, our little electric lantern's battery died around 8 PM so we're sitting there in the dark and we left as quickly as we could in the morning.

There's a lot to be said for motels.