CJ CAV 45 how long break in

[creed]

Hi, just received new CAV 45 today set it up and now running it in. Since it has no preamp does it break in faster. I googled it but not much out there, one guy said 50 hours. Am I looking at 200 to 400 hours. First few minutes bass was nice but its pretty much gone and it’s become a little bright. I took stock power tubes out and tried Mullard xf2’s to see if it was tubes breaking in but maybe little better but still same results.

Can someone tell me how a control amp breaks in, never owned one. I’m guessing just like any other amp. I hate breaking in gear. How long till it settles down then how long after that it’s done with break in pretty much, thanks for any insight, Paul

[AnotherJohnson]

Impatient search for instant audio Nirvana is probably not going to be rewarded.

Confucius say: Buy the best. Cry once.

People chase the version 2 for a reason. The version 1 is $1500 for a reason.

FWIW, there are still plenty of caps and resistors that will change during break in. And if you go swapping tubes Willy Nilly, you’ll never know what anything sounds like. Put the OEM tubes back. Let it run with a cd on repeat, or with your favorite streaming source, for three or four days.

If it’s still thin, you’re going to have to work on the room, the speakers or speakers placement, the interconnects, or your expectations.

[AnotherJohnson]

FWIW #2 … Not directed at the OP, but a general rant.

This issue of “I took it home and it sounded horrible,” is a common affliction and my friends in the industry commiserate about this with some regularity.

Everyone wants instant gratification. Everyone is “educated” because they read forums and reviews.

“It’s too harsh. It’s too shrill. It sends me screaming from the room. I swapped the tubes and improved it, but I still don’t like it.”

This is why 95% of the tweaks industry exists. Try these interconnects. Try these feet. Try these tube dampers. Try this mat. Try this power cord. Try this stand.

Admittedly patience is not the solution to every problem. Most of the time if you buy something like a V1 instead of a V2 for a substantial savings, they’re unlikely to perform the same. If they did, nearly EVERYONE would opt for the cheaper one.

[admin]

I like AJ's idea of just running it for 3-4 days with the original stock tubes. I would start with that and then sit down for a long listening session. I wouldn't make too many firm conclusion until then or try tweaking or tube rolling until at least that point. Length of burn in variable and will depend on who you ask, but typically I hear low 3 digit hours.

Agree that we would expect the V2 to sound better than V1 but that doesn't mean the V1 is not expected to perform well and certainly should not sound harsh or too bright.

Give it a little time and report back.

[Big Dog RJ]

110% correct! Well stated by AJ

I may add, there's absolutely no point in tube rolling from the initial operation where the CAV45 hasn't even settled in properly. Seriously mate...
I've had the absolute pleasure of owning both versions, and both of them took about the equal time to settle in during "normal operation" and that was 3 - 4 months! I would say at least 100hrs minimum.

Putting together an audio system is and "Art Form" it take several years to get it right and further several months to perfect or at least get the system performing optimally. There are various factors involved:
Room dimensions
Room acoustics
AC mains wiring (is it a dedicated line or is it being shared with the washing machine, dish washer & kettle...) dedicated wiring very important!!!
Proper grounding of the entire system.
Speakers (positioning, placements options, cables, speaker isolation if required, flooring, etc.)
Source gear: matching specs, input sensitivity, output sensitivity, cartridge matching, phono-preamp matching, gain structure, digital signals, DAC's etc.
Interconnects, speaker cables, power cords, power boards and other power distribution accessories.
Listening position: near field or far field, listening habits, listening tastes.
And the list goes on...

All of the above simply cannot be optimized within the hour. It takes time, effort and commitment to get it right, and every week, month and year passes by, you will learn something new with regards to your particular setup. Only you will be able to determine that, not us.
After a few months, you may discover that the speakers are completely in the wrong position, and change the entire placement. When this is done, everything else changes along with it- source / system gear arrangement, different audio racks used, acoustic paneling, sound absorbers, different wiring solutions etc., it's all a continuous game changer until you find that optimal sound and total synergy. At the moment, it's definitely not there. Long way more to go...

As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts regarding the CAV45, I had version one driving the Quad ESL2905's in a medium sized living room. Source was a McIntosh SACD player, phono-preamp was the Rega Aria, TT Rega RP3 with Benz Micro Glider cartridge, cabling solution was a full Nordost loom of the Heimdall line, and the sound was marvellous!

With version two (CAV45S2) I basically had the same digital source, TT was upgraded to the RP8 (same Rega Aria) with same cartridge, same Nordost cabling throughout but the speakers were the Martin Logan Ethos hybrid Stats, and the sound was outstanding!

Nothing was ever thin, or bright, even from the very first note! It was outstanding clarity, definition, transparency and most of all that musicality factor. It was after this setup and using the version 2 that I made the statement, "the CAV45 was one of the most enjoyable amplifiers I've ever used from CJ to date!" This kind of statement I don't make willy nilly... I'm very serious when I say this as "most enjoyable." Sure I've had the big guns, such as Premier 12's, Premier 8A's, LP140, LP260, LP125s, Classic 120, ARTsa, and now a pair of LP125m's that are fully modded. Inspite of going through all these wonderful and awe-inspiring power amplifiers, the CAV45 was the most enjoyable of all. However, it has to be matched with the right type of speakers and with a comfortable load, where the CAV45 is not under any stress... and it definitely won't play loud compared to any of those pure muscle power houses that are rated well over 100w - 200w/ch. However, at the right volume level and intimate setting, this is one amplifier that will totally engage you in the music, and keep you fully immersed for endless hours... you really have to experience this in order to understand what I'm referring to.

Sounding thin and light in bass... something in your config isn't matched properly... you will have to ascertain what component/s.
All the best, RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

Each of us has different expectations too. I’ve gone through this with several smaller amps and speakers too.

My most recent excursion into a lower cost system involved my decision to try to live happily with a pair of B&W 705S2s.

These are great small speakers, but my constant comparison to my full range speakers just led to dissatisfaction.

I worked with a subwoofer to try to get it where I would be happy, but to no avail. I kept using my full range speakers as the reference … and I just wasn’t happy. After three months, I bit the bullet and sold the very nice and capable small speakers, and replaced them with a pair of my reference speakers. And Audio Nirvana was back.

In another example, I recently acquired an ARC Ref 75 SE. it sounded great right out of the box. But reports are that it takes 600 hours for it to reach its full potential. Along the way, the break in is reported to not be monotonic. Some days it will soar. Others it will glide. I’ve seen this during the first month. Some days it is incredible and I can’t imagine how it might improve. Other days it is just very good. I will be patient, with the hope that after break in it will be incredible every day.

Patience is often rewarded. In the case of the REF 75 SE, I can see where I think it is going. But the program material is a big factor too.

You can’t force these things … but impatience is never rewarded. It just generates entropy.

[Big Dog RJ]

Between the two versions, there's nothing really special as such, where there would be a full Teflon cap layout along with a full layout of Vishays. This is not the case in version 2, if it was it wouldn't cost anywhere near the asking price.

The elements that have been modded in version 2 are slightly bigger trannys, the Cardas gold plated binding posts and stiffer power supplies, resulting in more power, around 10w more, that's about it. Everything else internally remains the same. Hence, burn-in time is going to take a while with either version...

Right out of the box, both sound quite good, and from the first note onwards the larger power supplies in version 2 is quite apparent, as it presents a more efficient drive since it offers more power and current at the same time. After about 1 - 2 hrs it really shows and then about a month later things begin to really take off. For the money spent and looking at it from a simplified point of view, this is one of those amplifiers that offers tremendous value, which is probably unmatched.

It is an outstanding control / integrated amplifier that will please even the most demanding source material. This was going to be my endgame amp driving the Avant Garde Duo XD's but then I got CLX's instead and that's a definite change over from the limits of the CAV45.

Partnered with the right kind of setup, this is as good as it gets! Cheers, RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

I do think that the power supply issue and transformer upgrades are a key thing.

The music really comes from the power supply. The tubes/valves control the flow … but they can call for whatever they want, and if the power supply isn’t up to it, it’s not spectacular.

And there is no power supply or speaker coupling withou the transformers. ARC makes a big deal out of these things, just like CJ does.

[creed]

Things have improved since last post. I should mention main reason I tried the Mullard xf2’s. They haven’t been used in 7 years and wanted to make sure they were still good and curious what I would hear. I only played them a few hours and stock tubes went back in to break in amp. I’ve been off for last week so I ran the amp about 16 hours a day on repeat. Bass is a lot better and highs are much smoother. Im perfectly happy with results I’m hearing now. Since I felt things were settling down last night I put back in the fx2’s. You don’t realize how good the xf2’s are till the current Mullard productions come out, there is a very large difference. Everything is natural and instruments sound real also much more enjoyable to listen to. Very happy with this amp.

[AnotherJohnson]

GREAT!

[admin]

Great to hear. Having the initial patience is tough. I know that every time I get a new peice of equipment in the system the first thing I want to do is play something right away and make a judgement. I have to remind myself that I really should get 100+ hours on the unit before making any determinations (good or bad).

Glad the sound is coming around. I wouldn't be surprised if it continues to improve in the next few hundred hours before settling down.

[warnie7]

I just bought a floor model that wasn't used much. Store focus was on other gear. I played the amp all weekend for at least 5 hours each day and the bass hasn't decreased like yours.