I took the plunge and upgraded big time!

[admin]

That's great. Really coming along! Keep us updated.

[AnotherJohnson]

Yes, it is going to be very nice! A worthy room for a worthy system.

I had a mini split in my outbuilding room at the old house. Mini splits are generally considered very quiet. But I got to where I would cool the room way low before a listening session, and then turn the mini split off so that it would be dead silent during listening. In winter it wasn’t necessary to hear the room up because the big tube monoblocks were space heaters, so the mini split didn’t typically need to run. Of course this is tied to your insulation and your climate.

[Cjaylundgren]

Ok, sorry for the delay in updating my new room status. See the attached photos, the room is 95% complete. I’m still waiting for a few items to arrive to complete the current setup. Speaker upgrade is in the near future along with room sound treatments.

IMG_1723.jpeg (2.27 MiB) Viewed 8191 times

https://www.conradjohnsonowners.com/dow ... ew&id=2291

[admin]

Oh my,... "upgrade" is an understatement. I mean that is exceptional. Really top of the line all around. I'm sure it sounds just absolutely wonderful. Really a big congrats on this. It really looks amazing and I'm sure sounds even better.

I should also mention the room turned out great. Having built my own home theater room from a previous attic space I know that is a pretty big endeavor. Looks like a nice bright and open space. I noticed the carpet but do you plan on doing any other acoustic treatments in the room or is not necessary?

And the maggies look great. Just wonderful. What an all around exceptional system. I'm very impressed. Enjoy the tunes!

[Big Dog RJ]

Ah! Nice one mate very well done.

That's a top combination, ART88 and the ART300's, will certainly have no issues driving any type of speakers to their full potential.

Also nice to see the MG20.7's ribbon tweeters placed on the inside. This will give you more precise imaging and inner detail. Soundstage depth should be tops, such that you wouldn't have to sit too far. Even near field listening is exceptionally good with the tweeter ribbons towards the inside. The only installation where I came across the tweeters on the outside were in much larger rooms with far field listening, and back then I had them placed on the outside as well.

I guess in this case, there's no right or wrong installation... just depends on your particular room setup and listening position. One thing I will say is, I've always preferred the MG20.7's to the 30.7's. The 30.7's are just way too big and far too cumbersome to set up. With multiple panel set-up options, it gets very annoying and will eventually drive you nuts! Also those need a huge room and massive amounts of power to grip and drive their double bass panels. The McIntosh 1200w monoblocks were just about ok but the MC462 not up to par. Only when I auditioned the 30.7's with the Relentless monoblocks and Pass Labs XA200.8 monoblocks, only then did I realise what the 30.7's were all about. In how many set-ups would you have these kind of amplifiers and Magnepan doesn't clearly address this with the 30.7's either. I don't think their 30.7's were much of a success compared to the other MG series speakers.

Anyway, those MG20.7's will be mighty fine! Fantastic!

Just a small suggestion, after having invested in such a top end system, I would definitely want to place those beautiful ART300's on dedicated amp stands, such as these; these are dedicated monoblock amplifier stands bolted by 4 heavy duty spikes, made by an Italian company called Solid Steel. Their audio racks are superb and very cost effective.

Enjoy those fine tunes!
WOOF! RJ

[Cjaylundgren]

Thanks Big Dog, excellent suggestion about amp stands. I’m doing some research on stands before I make a purchase decision. I’m also in the process of upgrading the signal cables to the Shunyata Research Alpha series cables. BTW, the Maggie’s are 3.7’s. The 20.7’s are in the upgrade plans in the next six months.

[admin]

I to was fooled thinking these were 20.7's but it's hard to tell as the size difference is hard to tell from pictures. I think the 20.7's are 4-5 inches wider and about 8 inches taller. The 3.7's are exceptional, but I think going to the 20.7's will do the rest of the equipment justice and synergistically elevate the system to another level. But one upgrade at a time!

I agree with both of you that amp stands would be a nice addition as well. The system looks amazing already, but optimizing each component's performance is well worth it when you are dealing with such excellent gear.

Clearly there have been some major upgrades to this system in a very short time,... not even to mention the listening room! Truly something to be proud of and enjoy.

[Cjaylundgren]

I’m also intrigued by the Diptyque planar magnetic speakers from France. This design apparently uses neodymium magnets on both sides of the planar film. Initial reviews I have read are positive. Bass response is also reported to be superior to Maggie’s. I’m investigating getting an audition of these babies. More to follow.

[admin]

Interesting. Not sure how Diptyque would compare to maggies both in terms of quality and price. Keep us informed.

[Big Dog RJ]

Ah! So not 20.7's... that's what I thought since they looked slightly narrow compared to the much wider MG20 series. Considering the height... I figured must be 20.7's. Either way, good to see the 3.7's, MG3. series at its best!

Oh! Yes the Diptyque! I've had extensive auditions on these. Please go through my last post when I got back from Spore in July I've written up a detailed analysis of the Diptyque. They're really tops! I would say a pretty close call alongside Alsyvox but BIG price difference.

The Alsyvox aren't very affordable, they are in the ultra-high-end range. Then there's the Clarisys line, which I didn't get a chance to audition because none of the dealers carried them. The latest news is that they have trouble convincing people who are keen on Apogee refurbs that cost a fortune and are made in Vietnam.

The lowest model of the Clarisys line is called the Minuet. It has a price tag of around 35grand Euros (standard version). Then there's the Neodymium version that costs 45grand Euros or about 25% more for that version. Equivalent to Aus $70grand!!! Just for the smallest Clarisys panel and still made in Vietnam, no thanks. Then comes the Studio plus and larger models, they go well over 60 to 70grand Euros which is already 100grand plus in AUD. So this is ultra-high-end but still just under priced compared to the Alsyvox line.

The smallest model of the Alsyvox ribbons is called the Tintorento, which is about 65grand here. Then comes the second to that called the Botichelli-X, which starts at 125grand to 185grand depending on out-board crossovers...so ultra-high-end again. I've heard the full Alsyvox line-up and they are superb in every sense of the word! But they cost a bloody fortune! So if you're willing to engage in this kind of spend, that's one SOTA ribbon panel.

Then there's Diptyque, made in France and engineered and designed solely in France. They're really well designed and don't coat a fortune. The only downside I came across is two things:

1. They're very light compared to either Alsyvox or Clarisys. The Clarisys are made of full rigid steel frames and plinths, with total weight starting at 95kg to 125kg.

2. There's no importer for Diptyque in Aus, which means no service nor any tech support. So something goes wrong, I'd have to send the panels all the way to France by boat... or airfreight, which will cost another fortune. No thanks.

I guess the Clarisys line is so expensive simply because of its rigid structure and the materials they use, also the parent company being Swiss. Anything the Swiss touch and the price goes up 20 times! Swiss watches, Swiss chocolates, Swiss cheese and even Dartzeel, CH Precision and Solution. Just look at that massive thick face plate on those Dartzeel amplifiers... that's where 80% of the cost is.

Alsyvox is made in Spain with Italian design and parts sourced from Europe (Spain, Italy and Germany). They use exclusively Neodymium's in all their models and their build quality is superb! Really really tops. You have to see any one of these Alsyvox panels up close to understand what I'm referring to. So Alsyvox will never be in the "affordable" category, no chance. That's Magnepan territory and Mags has truly captured that market segment.

Clarisys comes just under that but I was told by those who've heard the Clarisys line that they're superior to any Apogee refurbs out there. Maybe... but the Apogee refurbs done by Graz and Henk are excellent! So surpassing this overall performance and quality will take a huge effort and that's done with the use of Neodymium's. However, made in Vietnam... labour is very very low cost. I don't agree one bit with the price point of Clarisys.

Diptyque is most probably the one to seriously consider if you're after something really unique. I've had the opportunity of listening to them with a full array of Jadis amplifiers, which are also made in France. A very high performance panel type speaker. Not sure if your part of the world has tech support or a service centre... something you would need to consider. Otherwise just stick with Maggie's. Born and bred in the USA!

Cheers, RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

Sorry forgot to mention the Diptyque models I auditioned:
DP107 and DP140mk2. Didn't get a chance to audition the Diptyque Reference line, this is even better! Price range was somewhere around 16grand to 50grand, depending on model.

The Jadis monoblocks were outstanding! However, I personally prefer CJ and I believe CJ's ART series or any of their top tier series are a level higher than Jadis. Then again this depends on source gear, cables and accessories plus the room. So maybe I shouldn't make such comparisons.

Diptyque now has a full importer of their entire line-up in Spore at the Adelphi plaza, that's the place I call home when it comes to highend audio.

With the Alsyvox line-up, I had the opportunity of listening to the Tintorento, Botichelli-X and Raffelo, which are much larger panels. These perform totally on another dimension! It's not even funny, and can be driven with SET low watt amplifiers. Thanks to their high efficiency with the use of Neodymium's, this is possible. So the owner doesn't have to change amps or gear when considering Alsyvox.

If Aus had a Diptyque importer, I would have had the DP107's by now just as a second panel type speaker to have, and that being full range ribbon panels. I wouldn't ever get rid of my CLX's, as those are my favourite of all time! Obviously a personal preference, that's all.

If you ever get the chance to audition a Diptyque panel system, make sure they use monoblocks or a very highend stereo amp that's supremely designed. It will drive the Diptyque's exceptionally well. I very highly recommend them. Awesome panels done by the French.

Now it's time for more fine tunes!
Woof! RJ

[admin]

Lots of great planar options and Diptyque is one that is at least in the semi-magnepan price range... although in all honesty Magnepan is a digit less for most of their models compared to the competition. And the fact that they have a speaker like the LRS+ for $1k for the entry market is nothing short of amazing.

The only concerning issue is that Diptyque has a single distributer in the US. Not sure if they do repairs or not. I had sent one of my Magnepan 20.1 panels in for a significant repair (a full driver replacement) when I first got them. The total cost with shipping was $1500. Not sure if a local distributer would be even able to do work such as that, and if I wanted to send a large door sized package to Europe and back, well I would have to go to the bank first and see if I can get a 2nd mortgage on the house.

At the end of the day, these are all amazing speakers. Whether, magnepan, Diptyque, Clarisys, Alsyvox,... etc... it's a privilege to own any of them, especially offerings in the higher end of their lines.

[Big Dog RJ]

Correct! And that's why when considering such brands / lines, you have to look at tech support/ after sales service. If it's not clearly listed anywhere or on their websites then I simply don't bother. Tech support is so important because nothing's bullet proof, especially at this level if something goes wrong, you need peace of mind, not added stress!

Which brings me to this next point:
Sadly one of our very highend stores or should I say ultra-high-end, is closing down. I won't mention the name for obvious reasons but they carried a lot of ultra-high-end gear (Alsyvox, Dartzeel, CH Precision, Solution, Aries Cerat, Wilson's, Wilson Benesch, Ypsilon, etc). With zero sales in the last few years and terrible interest rate hikes we're having at the moment, let alone paying staff salaries has been a struggle, so such outfits simply can't survive.
Even the low-end isn't selling much... so forget about the highend market, it's a very very tiny percentage in Aus. Even then, such consumers rather buy Ferrari's so they can drive around in one.

Maties! Hold onto to that precious CJ gear, prices are going out of whack! It's a beautiful sound and a very highend design, just appreciate it every moment.
Cheers, RJ

[Cjaylundgren]

I’m intrigued with the Diptyque design as it appears to up the engineering effort on the basic planar design. I’ve been a Maggie user since 1986 having owned the MGIIIA, MG3.5R, and currently the MG3.7 (not the i version). My view is that the Maggie design has been basically “stagnant” since the original models except for some minor updates and the ribbon tweeter. The Diptyque design seems to be a radical overhaul of the planar concept. I’m looking forward to investing getting an audition of this design to see how it stacks up to the Maggies.

[admin]

If you do get to audition the Diptyque, please let us know what you think. As a "planar" guy I'm always interested in new developments. As I mentioned before, there seems to be only one dealer in the US so it makes it kind of hard to listen to a pair unless you live in that one area. I think I still would have some concerns about support so you probably want to ask the dealer if they are equipped to do repairs or whether you have to ship all the way to Europe and back if something goes south. There is also a rather large user group of maggie and Martin Logan users so if something breaks, sometimes it can be a DIY repair with the help of others. Much less so with some of these more "exotic" brands. Just things to consider.

Regardless, whatever speaker you choose, the rest of the gear is going to be up to the task of bringing out its best. Again, top tier gear, congrats!

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, that's a very valid point by Admin.

As I said before, if service and tech support is miles away... then you will need to find a way! As the famous saying goes, "if there's a will, there's a way."

As far as comparing the two, Maggie's and Diptyque... there's no comparison. The Diptyque are far superior and operate as high performance speakers. They have a sort of electrostatic / horn effect. With startling speed, superb acceleration and agility. This start-stop speed is something I adore on stats, and of lately, two ribbon makes that have made tremendous headway into the world of sheer transparency and effortless dynamics, have been Alsyvox and Diptyque. Of course the latest addition being Clarisys but I've not heard them as yet.

*The other full range ribbon panels that I found superior to Maggie's were the Audio Analysis ribbons*

If possible, try to audition either the Onega or Epsilon. I listened to these quite a while back in 2016, whiles I was finalising on speakers. The AA Omega's were on my top 5 but not on my final top 3 short-list. Although I didn't finalise on them doesn't mean that you won't like them. You just might! The price range is also very different to Alsyvox or Diptyque, more affordable I would say.

The Apogee's were known to be a better Maggie, such that they never used Neodymium's or any exotic materials to increase efficiency. Both Apogee's and Maggie's were very hard to drive, and most amplifiers couldn't drive either of them optimally. Only a handful of really well known amps, such as Krell, Bryston, Threshold, Classe, Sumo, Hafler, VTL, ARC and CJ had no issues with such speakers.

If you are planning on arranging a demo with Diptyque panels, I would suggest to start with the DP107. This is a very unique panel type speaker, such that it has a very unusual speaker stand/ support structure. It allows for the whole panel to be angled forwards or backwards, adjusting height and scale of soundstage including depth. It can be adjusted to suit most rooms and the DP107 overall is a decent size panel.

There's a smaller version of this to suit much smaller rooms but can play pretty loud too. So don't let the size fool you.

The larger Diptyque models, such as the 140MK2 and onto the reference series are superior, and will suit larger rooms. So it all depends on what you're after... the Diptyque reference series pricing is fairly high but not as crazy as Alsyvox or the Clarisys line for that matter.

With the use of Neodymium's in all three makes, it has brought together a formidable full ribbon planar technology speaker that is like no other ribbon that we've been accustomed to. So that's a profound YES! All of these surpass our beloved old ribbon design by a far margin!

I would say this though, Magnepan is one of those iconic planar ribbon speakers that's a true classic in every sense of the word "classic!"

With this new tech of double sided bass panels, outboard x-overs using very high quality parts and wiring, plus the use of rare earth magnets, Neodymium's, which are the most powerful type know thus far, increase the overall efficiency and performance of these new panel-types to levels previously not thought possible.

You've got to audition these new types of panels, in order to understand what I'm referring to. From their first note onwards, you'll realise that the technology of full range ribbons has taken on a whole new dimension.

Very excited and happy for you... do let us know how it goes. You won't be disappointed with the performance of Diptyque... trust me, I know!

Cheers mate, RJ

[Cjaylundgren]

Has anyone had the opportunity to audition an “X” version of a Maggie speaker. I’m curious if the upcharge is worth it. I emailed the Maggie service department and they told me upgrading a 3.7 would run $4000 not including disassembly and reassembly nor shipping. $4k seems pretty steep of a cost for improved parts. Just curious at this point.

[admin]

Has anyone had the opportunity to audition an “X” version of a Maggie speaker. I’m curious if the upcharge is worth it. I emailed the Maggie service department and they told me upgrading a 3.7 would run $4000 not including disassembly and reassembly nor shipping. $4k seems pretty steep of a cost for improved parts. Just curious at this point.

Isn't the latest version of the 3.7 the "3.7i"? I would not spend close to $5000 (with shipping both ways) as that is almost the cost of a brand new 3.7i. I'm surprised they are charging that much. Magnepan is know for their low cost (compared to other similar manufacturers). When I had to replace an entire faulty panel on one of my 20.1's, it was under $1500, which included shipping back. Granted that was a decade ago, but still...

[Cjaylundgren]

Here’s the info on the X upgrade from the Maggie website:

The MG_ X Upgrade Program
The general idea of the 'X' program is to take the existing design of a given speaker, and simply, almost one-for-one, replace all of the components leading up to the driver, with superior ones. This yields a noticeable, graphable, and awing improvement. There are certain model-specific features, but the MG is at its core characterized by the following factors:
X Upgrade Program
Better Capacitors:
All capacitors that aren't already, are replaced with high quality, copper-rich, polypropylene capacitors [banks]. Each capacitor (and bank] used is individually tested to the hundredth such that left and right crossovers' capacitances are within five thousandths. With the increased level of testing and decrease in tolerance, minor value tweaks are employed in some models resulting in fewer capacitors used and a smoother response overall.
Better Coils (Inductors):
All coils that aren't already, are replaced with high-gauge, copper wire, air-core, bobbin wound coils [arrays]. Each coil [array] used is individually tested to the tenth such that left and right crossovers' inductances are within five hundredths. Model depended: with the above capacitance changes in mind, some values are minorly adjusted for smoother response overall.
Better Wiring:
All wiring (aside from the green (+) and yellow (- wires for True Ribbon Tweeters) is replaced with 15ga or higher solid copper wire. Excess wire (for ease of assembly, for instance) is completely removed. Careful attention is paid to design, layout, and pathing of the crossover components such that wire lengths are short and the overall wire-mass is significantly reduced. Left and right crossover and nameplate impedances are ensured to be equivalent for ideal balance.
Better Connections:
All connections within the circuit, from the solder lug attached to the terminal screw on the nameplate, to the crossover board, to the driver terminal block, and back are soldered connections. Besides the terminal screw, solder lug, and jam nut connection on the nameplate, there are no mechanical connections used
Better Inputs:
All nameplate components are gold rather than nickel.
Appearance:
The appearance of an MG X is not intended to be visually really any different from that of its non-X counterpart (aside from the gold nameplate components in situations where that wouldn't already be gold). The crossover of some models may be visible, such as with the MG1.7x, and as such that will be noticeably different in a side-by-side test, from the back of the speaker. The nameplate will also have a small red "X" after the model to denote that it is a part of the X Upgrade program.
If you have any questions (technical or otherwise) regarding the Upgrade to X Program, please do not hesitate to ask! You can contact your local Magnepan Certified Dealership-you can find a full list of our dealers on our website, magnepan.com or you can reach out to the Magnepan Service Department directly

[admin]

That's cool. I just saw that on their website when I did a little searching. So it looks like any of their speakers can be upgraded to their "X" spec. I wonder how many of these "X" versions are leaving the factory direct or it's 100% sending sold units in for upgrade? If upgrading a 3.7i to X costs almost as much as a new speaker itself, I have to say it's a little bit of a hard sell. Then again, maggies are considered the "bargain" speaker in the audiophile world, so even with the extra cost they perform at levels comparable to much more expensive options on the market.

Many of these upgrades have already been done on my 20.1's, especially in the crossover and one can DIY much of this rather easily if they are so inclined. At the end of the day I like additional options and I'm glad magnepan is "upping their game" and giving the option of putting higher end components into their speakers.