Wilson speakers

[Big Dog RJ]

G'day AJ,

So... you're getting Wilson's. Mmm... my experience with owning Wilson's has only been with one of their models, which was the Alexia version 1 (pre- owned by two owners) I was the third owner. This was during 2010/11 when I was on a quest for my end game dynamic type speakers. Short listed Genesis 300 series, SF Stradivarius, Wilson Alexia and Magico Q5. However, ended up with the SF Elipsa for a short while then had the opportunity to end up with the Alexia's.

Partnered with CJ amplification it was really good, gripped the bass well, smooth extended highs and very easy flowing midrange. Great soundstage depth, and very good scale. Also requires a fair amount of space to breathe on all sides, even though the rear of the Alexia's have ports. So the bass doesn't "chuff" as much... compared to most cabinet designs. Speaking of cabinets, these are very well braced, extra rigid on all aspects and come at a hefty weight. It took a fair bit of tweaking over several weeks, due to the finer adjustments made possible on the tweeter & midrange housing, overall quite good.

However, after a while I noticed some anomalies in the midrange and realised that these had gone through a lightning strike at the first owner's place. I was never told that nor did the second owner know either, I got to know through my trusted dealer sources and then realised why the price was too good to be less than 20grand. Anyway, those parts were fixed according to the Wilson distributor and fully checked, so I was told but something was a miss. On certain recordings they were great and on some just plain awful, un-listenable I would say.

Nonetheless, I appreciated what they did well... as a few more months passed by, I auditioned the new Quad ESL line, which were the 2905's and 2912's. Oh my! What a whole new dimension in true midrange, utterly lifelike, sheer transparency and far greater resolution than any comparable dynamic driver type that I had auditioned. Managed to sell off the Wilson's to a person who's dedicated to Wilson's and Genesis up in Sydney. He's now fully restored the Alexia's to the version 2, driven with the Gryphon Mephisto, sounds much better!

As for me, after that Quad episode and then turning back to Maggie's then onto Quads and ML hybrids and finally CLX's, as you can tell, the rest is history. I'm just very passionate about full range stats, there's nothing quite like them.

As for the Wilson's, I did get the chance to audition some very lofty ones, from the new Alex 2 to the Chronosonic that costs a fortune, all very impressive without a doubt but not my preference in sound. The Sabrina's if properly setup will deliver some great results and there are no finer adjustments in the midrange or tweeter housing, as that part is at a fixed angle. So it should be much easier to set up. One thing I did notice is that from all the Wilson's, it's only their very top of the line that really is impressive, the materials used in their crossovers and cabinet bracing is like no other! And this is where the real quality kicks in... but it costs a dam fortune.

I would say from the Alexia Version 2 and upwards is about the real Wilson sound. I'm not sure if the Sabrina's can match what the Alexia can do but I'm hoping they will...
I won't be surprised if your Revel's surpass them or that you may prefer the Revel's since that's what you're used to. However, if you really wanted to experience what Wilson's can do, it's their bigger models that really shifts gears, and the price goes through the roof!

Would be interesting to learn your findings and get your impression on comparing with the Revel's. Keep us updated.

Just thought I'd share this 50cts worth of my limited experience having owned only one Wilson model.
Cheers, RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

Thanks!

FWIW this wasn’t about a sound quest. It was about the deal. I couldn’t afford not to try them.

They can’t be expected to compare with anything above them in the Wilson line up.

Wilson pricing makes CJs pricing look like a bargain.

I love the Revels, but I did not need two pair. I loved the PH8, but I don’t need four phono preamps. So my cash position in the Wilsons is quite modest.

I’ll keep you posted, and I think it will be fun to do the comparison. The Revels have an msrp of about 67% of the msrp of the Wilsons. But msrp isn’t even a guide anymore.

[AnotherJohnson]

The shipper has confirmed that the Wilsons will be picked up in the morning. Lucky date 7/7.

I’m expecting them to get here next week with good fortune.

[AnotherJohnson]

Like my own father who loved to coin acronyms, David Wilson had a propensity to coin names and then to label what they represented with the first letters of the name he’d coined.

His speaker setup procedure was labeled WASP, for Wilson Audio Setup Procedure. My Wilson dealer friend and I have talked about it many times. He was trained by David Wilson’s official factory surrogate, complete with standard setup audio tracks. He had applied his skills to finally tweak the Chronosonics into proper performance in the showroom, and that was why we’re listening to the Chronosonics a few weeks ago. My pronouncement after the audition was a hearty “well done.” I was finally able to hear what the fuss was about.

Since David applied this method to all of his installations, I thought I’d learn a bit more about it. David and his son who has followed him into leadership of the business made a video, and so I watched it in anticipation of the upcoming arrival of the Sabrinas. Here it is.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UOI8py0DAC8

It appears to me that he is trying to tune the speaker placement to get the optimal “corner contribution,” although he doesn’t come right out and say it. He does (in a roundabout way) say that the goal is to put the speakers in a zone of neutrality where the direct field (as opposed to the reverberant field) will dominate the reproduction at the listener position.

I went through his instructions with my Revels last night. It turns out that I’ve serendipitously maneuvered my Revels into their optimal location. This didn’t really surprise me because good, coherent sound is readily recognized, and I’ve got that in spades. It’s not magic. WASP takes it to the level of final positioning tweaks that are under an inch.

The best general location appears to be be room dependent, but the best specific location within the general location looks to me like it is probably driven by the match between the speakers bass output and the corner’s reinforcement.

I’ve moved the LP275Ms and attendant components into position. I am going to run the Sabrina break in with the LP275Ms. I expect that the optimal Sabrina location will probably overlap the footprint of the the Revels, so when i finally get to the comparison stage, I’ll have to be shuffling the speakers back and forth. I might luck out and find that the optimal locations don’t overlap, but that’s just a hope.

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[AnotherJohnson]

FWIW, my own placement strategy has been strongly influenced by Martin Logan instructions for placement optimization. But this is probably because the ratios and measurements that Martin Logan recommends work very well in larger rectangular rooms as I’m typically using.

David Wilson says that his method works even in rooms with a glass wall, or an L shape. I suspect it does. It’s not based on math. It’s based on experiments with your own voice and your own ears.

[AnotherJohnson]

If you watched the WASP video, you may have noticed the worksheet that is part of the process.

Note that there are a whole lot of subjective evaluation categories. What this means is that the perfect speaker location is dependent not only on the room and the speaker, but is also dependent on the listener.

What I think is unique in the WASP is that instead of throwing up your hands and saying “This will never sound good because of that glass wall,” You work to find the place where the glass wall is least harmful to the direct field.

I note that often the small Wilsons end up much closer to corners than would be optimal for me … but IN THE CORNERS is where many nonaudiophile spouses would prefer them.

From listening to David, Daryl and others talk about soundstage, my sense is that they put greater subjective emphasis on other factors in the placement algorithm. Once they have a well centered image, they’re not chasing the soundstage further.

When my friend was tweaking the Chronosonics it was AFTER a factory tweaker had wrangled them into “perfection.” But to our ears, they weren’t special. The application of different subjective values to the category on the worksheet led to changes that, to our ears, brought the whole thing into focus.

I heard another guy say once that WASP tells you where David would put the speakers, and they will sound great there, but you might like them better in another position.

Wilson is also known to observe that most people do not want to fool with a bunch of acoustic treatments. Acoustic treatments with typical absorbers make a fashion statement that few nonaudiophiles care for. Wilson wants the speaker to please you in your nonaudiophile room. Obviously as you move up in the line, only audiophiles would pay the money, so room treatment options come back into play.

In any event, speaker placement should always be judged by the ears of the listener. As Roberto often reminds us, “Your system, your ears.”

[roberto]

Acoustically you can have on hand a lot of formulas and plotted diagrams of the room, and when the formulas decide the right location, you hear them, and your liking is totally different and with another position. Your ears tell you if you are happy or not.

I do like my room and my sound quality. I made possible to disappear the speakers and have a lot of depth. The golden seat is for two people only. my room is small. And has a lot of magic. So this is what I do like. When people see how big my CLXs are, they say that the sound would be a mess in such small room. Once they hear it, the first thing that they say is: I don't understand how you did this. The logic says another thing.

What I am trying to say is, don't worry...you will move them around and suddenly something good happened. So trust what your ears are telling you, and not what people say. Enjoy those new magnificent speakers. The Revel are quite good speakers too. It is going to be a hard and tough decision. Choose the ones that your ears are happy with. Not what money says. It is your liking, your wallet, your system and your ears!

Enjoy those magnificent musicians that are into the recordings. Enjoy their communication and feeling while playing. Try to call out their names in the recordings...if you can call their names, this is a very good thing.

Please tell us your findings. Keep us posted.

Happy listening!

[AnotherJohnson]

Yes, of all the things to worry about in life, this is not one of them.

As for Sabrinas vs Revels, I think it will turn out to be an example where two very different speakers both sound pretty good.

Meanwhile I now have the tracking number. 250 pounds on a pallet. Coming by air, but deferred priority. They will show up at BNA (Nashville’s main airport) next week, and should be delivered to my driveway shortly thereafter.

I watched a video of unpacking Sabrinas. There are two boxes shrink wrapped together. Each weighs 112 pounds, but will fit on an appliance moving cart.

The Sabrinas don’t have castors. Just the spikes.

You can buy a set of mechanical “diodes” for $200.

Both of these upgrades are included with the SabrinaX.

You can buy a set of upgraded binding posts for $600.

You can buy the jack for swapping castors for spikes for $900. But since there are no Sabrina/SabrinaX castors, it’s not “necessary.”

Wilson appear to be masters of the art of high prices.

But we knew that.

[roberto]

I do know that you know this, so just a reminder: At the beginning, don't play too many musical instruments, just play quartets, combos...easy to listen.

Listen how the musical instruments are projected to the room, not how many bass or midrange with highs you have. Seek for naturalness of the musical instruments. Are the strings very bright at certain musical notes? Seek for a sweetness on the clarinet or the oboe. The fagot could be another wind instrument to try.
Voices should be without any stress or sore throats. I do like a lot women voices. In jazz, there are many great women singers with very good musicians with her. Diana Krall is one of them. I do know that you like Miles Davis, what a great musicians did play with him. Many times, I enjoy more the side musicians than the main artist. Listen to the Chris Botty new recordings. He is playing with a very sweet and nice tone. The trumpet is difficult too. Winton Marsalis is another great musician who is generally sharing great musicians in his recordings.
Listen a piano. Do you understand the left hand vs the the right hand? Listen the piano scales, do they have coherence? In the guitar, can you tell which strings are played in which fret? The open e sounds different than the e with the second string at the fifth fret or the third at the ninth fret, etc.
Your system is capable to all this and more. The resolution is very important. To have the resolution that you should get when you listen the instruments at the stage and you being just a listener with the best seat in the event.

Quality has no regret!

[AnotherJohnson]

I am reminded of the retired South African ARC/Maggies aficionado who listened for how well the third oboist had trimmed her reed.

Seriously, I am more moved by the heart of the performance than the mechanics. But … I think it is another of those “your ears, your system” moments.

If they are believable, I’ll be happy with them.

You will have to come and listen with me.
Bring your preamp!

[roberto]

You are too much! Thanks for the invitation, surely when I am around and near you, I love to visit you. I am going to New Orleans from 19th to 26th of August.

I wish to you a very happy listening, and of course I do know your capabilities for listening to the music.

[AnotherJohnson]

Like Roberto’s ET7s2, the Sabrinas are not moving as fast as I would like … or maybe they are … the tracking is lousy. They enter it by hand, so updates are few and far between.

The seller (a reputable dealer with whom I’ve had many excellent transactions), is comfortable with status. Me? Less so.

I’m ready for them though. Here’s a picture of the set up. The whole audio system is present in the form of two parallel systems.

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The Sabrinas will be inboard of the Revels.

Both LP12s are present (on either end). The TEA1 is present too.

I’ve got both systems on the central power plug, but they will never be on simultaneously.

[admin]

System looking great. Very nice and can't wait to get the new Wilsons in there for some comparisons.

Hopefully they will get to you sooner than later. As you mentioned, sometimes tracking can be delayed. I've seen that a lot with USPS, but even UPS and fedex sometimes. The only shipper that seems to have flawless tracking is Amazon. The logistics of that company are amazing, I can see how many stops away the driver is before he drops off my "next thing that I didn't really need." To bad they don't start a shipping service!

[AnotherJohnson]

I picked up the Sanus rack on the left at my dealer/friend yesterday when I realized how easy (cablewise) it would be to add the second TT back in if I moved the end table in to support it. I absolutely love these end tables as TT stands. They are more sonically neutral than anything else I’ve tried except for the original Target wall shelf which I also like. But the end tables don’t leave scars on the walls. And they have a drawer for storage of TT accessories like levels, brushes, scales, etc.

I started this post to comment on acquiring Sanus racks though.

Sanus has apparently cut off direct to dealer wholesale sales. They have an Amazon store (The Sanus Store). So you could buy that rack for $199 from Amazon (with free shipping if you’re a Prime member).

The dealers who are still willing to carry them are buying from them too. And marking them up to $399. That is actually a typical markup (double dealer net, aka 50% margin). My dealer is selling them for $329 to anyone off the street. As is often the case, YMMV.

So if you’re shopping for a modestly priced, easy to assemble, very flexible, decent quality rack system, check them out on Amazon.

Regarding the installation, I’ve got it all set off the wall enough so that I can maneuver behind the racks and console. This facilitates interconnect, speaker cable, and power cord manipulation.

[AnotherJohnson]

First official tracking was today. “Freight on hand at destination.”

So that means they’re at the Nashville airport.

They’re supposed to call me to set up a delivery window. So I’m answering “Potential Spam” calls.

So far I’ve had three “Real Estate Mining” calls regarding our interest in selling our house .

[AnotherJohnson]

Still no calls, so I’ve reached out to the seller who is now chasing them down. Technically they were/are supposed to be delivered today. So they’re not “late” yet. But I could’ve gone to BNA and picked them up on Tuesday, and if they’re not scheduled today or tomorrow, I may do that anyway.

Like Roberto and his ET7S2, I’m tired of waiting.

Patience isn’t a virtue so much as a coping skill.

[admin]

Has the tracking info been updated? You would figure that would give the most recent status and estimated delivery time.

[AnotherJohnson]

The tracking is manual and I don’t expect any more entries until the one associated with actual delivery.

This package, two wrapped together and 250 pounds, could not go by normal ups or FedEx ground. Too heavy.

It could have been broken into two 125 pound packages, but Wilson is against that, preferring freight.

I’ll jack up the seller after lunch. He’s in EDT. The shipping Company is in PDT. I’m in CDT.

[AnotherJohnson]

After my seller spent quite a bit of time on the phone, we FINALLY have a delivery window. Tomorrow between 10 am and 2 pm. Works for me.

It will be a challenge to wrestle the 250 pound package down to two 94 pound speakers, and into position. But we’ve got the necessary equipment here. I may have to recruit one of my sons to help with the task … my 100 pound spouse has willing spirit, but weak flesh.

[AnotherJohnson]

Has the tracking info been updated? You would figure that would give the most recent status and estimated delivery time.

I thought admin might get a kick out of this. Late yesterday tracking was updated … but the entry was to acknowledge who had taken possession of the “freight on hand” when it arrived at BNA on Monday.

So the only entries between “pick up scheduled for 7/7” and today have been Monday’s acknowledgment that it arrived at the airport on 7/11, and yesterday’s acknowledgement of the person who took possession on 7/11.

The saga has moved forward nevertheless, ahead of the tracking. The freight is supposed to be delivered to me today. I expect the last tracking entry will be “delivered on 7/15” and that entry should make it into tracking sometime next week since it’s not automated like UPS or FedEx.

I suspect it’s not possible to automate it yet because there are several freight movers involved. One to take it to origin airport. One to fly it to destination airport. One to deliver it to final destination.

I’ve seen this with EU orders to the US. Companies are coordinated by a “super broker” who has enough volume to optimally schedule hand offs from one to the next. But tracking generally is very spotty. It often seems like stuff has been lost. Yet it always eventually shows up.

Optimally schedule is the operating principle. The optimization objective varies, depending on the person calling the shots. The super broker has to balance the need to maximize profit against the customer’s willingness to tolerate time and cost. The customer has to balance the desire to receive it “yesterday,” with the reality of cost to make that happen.