Streaming reliability and streamer updating

[AnotherJohnson]

I ran across this today.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_contin ... e=emb_logo

Paul McGowan is on the side I was on.

I can say without a doubt that the isp repairs, Ethernet, Roon nucleus and Rossini have cured my problems.

Streaming here is definitely a first level source comparable to CDs and SACDs. Maybe even vinyl.

[Joe Appierto]

I like the fact that Paul doesn't purport to have all the answers and doesn't "know" precisely what's going on with streaming. He has some possibilities in mind: bandwidth compression, jitter, and the lack of galvanic isolation in some cases.

I don't know about how the DACs you have, AJ, stack-up in terms of galvanic isolation. I've noticed some improvement when using an Acoustic Revive LAN isolator between my Xfinity Gateway and the Oppo 105D and the DirectStream DAC. Even though they are hardly SOTA, to me, instrumentation and vocals have a bit better sense of realism when I use the isolators at the end of the stream hooked into the end points.

Some report that they do hear the improvement but there is also (especially depending on the type of music) a small diminution in leading edge transients. I hear this too but the quid pro quo for me of the increased realism versus a slight, occasional softening is worth it.

Just sayin'.

[AnotherJohnson]

I don't know about how the DACs you have, AJ, stack-up in terms of galvanic isolation.

I don’t know either. I’m sure it wouldn’t hurt to try it.

My only basis for comparison is to line up vinyl, CD, SACD, and stream and then choose. I am at the point where they are generally all quite good. But, as has been shown over and over again, no matter how good it might be, it is probably possible to make it even better.

[admin]

Paul is really big on galvanic isolation and plans to introduce it into all of PS Audio units in the future. I think this is going to make a bigger difference in some systems vs others but the concept is sound.

[AnotherJohnson]

I studied the idea a bit.

Here is Paul M.’s explanation.

https://www.psaudio.com/blogs/pauls-pos ... gKOB_D_BwE

It sounds to me like regular balanced or unbalanced interconnects would thwart any galvanic isolation of a component.

All the stuff in my Roon Rossini streaming set up is on the same P20, so it’s hard to see how galvanic isolation would be implementing, and even harder to see how it would improve things.

[Joe Appierto]

Your dCS DAC is very high end and its Ethernet connection may already be isolated in which case an isolator would not be needed. If you do have any other Ethernet end points that aren't then there might be some benefits to be gained. It's the Ethernet connections going into a source unit such as a DAC, CD player and so forth that benefit the most. I tried plugging the isolators into the unused slots on the Xfinity Gateway and the effects were minimal to nonexistent. I also tried connecting them to the used Ethernet slots on the Gateway which then lead to a source unit and the effect was a little better but plugging them into the end points were where the effect was greatest.

[AnotherJohnson]

I may not understand it yet, but my sense is that to add galvanic isolation to an Ethernet port would require breaking the hardwire connection and inserting a WiFi bridge, or breaking the hardwire connection and inserting an optical bridge, or braking the hardwire connection and inserting a magnetic bridge. It seems like the whole bridge concept has the potential for smoothing. If the smoothing is removing harsh artifacts, it might be introducing necessary filtering, or more likely euphonious distortion.

The whole thing would have been galvanically isolated from the isp when I had the WiFi bridge. It sounds clearer to me without the bridge, though the differences don’t jump out at you and poke you in the ears.

I have the Rossini, the Nucleus, and the Node all plugged into the same Ethernet switch. The power ground plane is common through a P20.

The ground for the switch has been lifted. I think it’s lifted for the Node too, but m not looking at it. Devices with lifted ground at the plug get their ground plane from the device they’re plugged into.

In other words, ground lifted devices get their ground from their interconnects. That’s why galvanic isolation at the Ethernet doesn’t strike me as saving you from a ground loop. Galvanic isolation would be most effective if it were at the interconnect level, but it would certainly alter the sound if it were used there. It also would set you up for a potential shock if you were two touch two devices on different ground planes.

After thinking this through, I am going to enjoy aftermarket galvanic isolators through the ears of others who use them.

My first reaction to PS Audio was that Paul was often selling snake oil. I accepted that I was wrong based on the audible improvements that the P12 and P20 brought to my high resolution system. But I’m still not convinced for many of his products. And reading his autobiography did not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling about his journey. By the end of the bio, I felt like there was redemption on some level … but there’s still that impish grin impressed on a lot of levels.

I say if you’ve got a problem that you think one of his products might solve, try it and see.

But I'm not working a problem at this point. I’m uncomfortable borrowing one. YMMV

[Joe Appierto]

My knowledge of things electrical wouldn't fill a thimble. I do know, however, if I stick the LAN Isolator into the Ethernet port on my 105D and another into the Ethernet port on the DS DAC and then insert their respective Ethernet cables into the LAN Isolator it makes a difference in the sound.

Your set-up is first class and could very well not receive any benefit from the LAN isolators. This could very well be a case of if it ain't broken then don't fix it.

[AnotherJohnson]

Maybe it would be useful if the Ethernet connected devices were more separated. Mine are all on short cords and on the same hardwired switch.

I could buy one and try it. If it made the Node sound as good as the Rossini, that would be interesting.

One thing that’s changed here is my satisfaction with all of my levels of streaming.

The main system sounds great with either Qobuz/Roon Nucleus/Rossini OR with Amazon/Node/Rossini.

The headphone stack sounds grand using HEOS to stream from ND8006 on WiFi to SA-KI Ruby DAC to Sennheiser HDV820 for listening on the HD800S headphones. HEOS supports Amazon but not Qobuz, but Amazon’s got plenty to listen to by itself. And the Ruby adds both CD and SACD too.

And the Denon Home 350 is exactly perfect for my wife in the central part of the house. Like Alexa on Steroids.

What am I going to do for a hobby?

Maybe this ARC stuff will give me something to do.

I’m actually heading out to an industry party in an hour. Nothing like fresh perspectives.

[AnotherJohnson]

This morning I’ve done an extensive demo A-B comparison with the Innous PheonixNet switch in place of a lesser switch. It retails for $3800.

And you can hear the difference. Sad but true.
There is less smearing compared to what already sounds like no smearing. The starting and stopping points of instruments and voices are even more clear than what would seem to be perfect.

Speakers were Chronosonic XVX. The server was Innous Statement, about $17k.

Roon was the facilitator for Qobuz.

[AnotherJohnson]

The Innous Statement was running as a Roon core. The actual DAC was the Rossini.

[Joe Appierto]

The rabbit hole can be deep. At some point one has to say I'm finished. Not trying to talk you into or out of anything -- just sayin'.

[AnotherJohnson]

I talked with several high muckity mucks from dCS, including the owner.

The sales level guy and I talked a long time.

His ordering for Rossini upgrades is

Apex first. It affects the sound of every source fed to the Rossini.

Then the Master Clock. It affects things than can connect to a master clock, but does not impact things that can’t.

The new Rossini Apex Player is still unable to play SACDs. You’ve got to get a Rossini Transport and pair it with a dCS DAC to play SACDs through the Rossini or the Rossini Apex.

The rumor that the Rossini transport has a Marantz sourced drive and the Vivaldi Transport drive is sourced from Esoteric is true. But neither is an off the shelf drive. They are both custom built to dCS specifications.

[AnotherJohnson]

The party was an intimate and grand success.

I had the chance to have private conversations with several owner level guys.

My favorite exchange was a one on one with Darryl Wilson. But I also had one on one discussions with owners of dCS, and Transparent, two other companies with which I have been very pleased. And with others.

Two things to share.

First, I’m done speculating about ARC. On a human level, the issues are real. But what is clearly arm chair quarterbacking is unproductive. Things will unfold at their own rate. I look forward to a good result for all of the families directly involved.

Second, the level of the quality of the music presentation at the highest of the high end is markedly more real than the level at the general high end. It’s just a fact. Not up for debate among folks who’ve never actually heard it.

There are few dealers who can deliver a solid demo.

The good news is that as long as you’re happy with the sound of your own system, who’s to argue? Enjoy what you’ve got. The price of admission to the ultimate two channel systems is prohibitive for most, including me. Put your focus on your music and, as RJ likes to remind us, enjoy those fine tunes.

[Wildcat]

Paul is really big on galvanic isolation and plans to introduce it into all of PS Audio units in the future. I think this is going to make a bigger difference in some systems vs others but the concept is sound.

Thinking back a year or two, I think Paul (and Ted Smith, his DirectStream guru and designer) determined that the "crud" on incoming signals is what can cause even the exact same model and brand of component to sound different in two different playback systems. Or on the flip side, it could also explain why two different streaming source components can sound different. That is also why they eliminated the Bridge II from the new DirectStream v2 DAC--it was another source of "noise" inside the component. For Ethernet, it is the "crud" (the EMI/RFI) that the cables pick up along the way that the galvanic isolation is supposed to eliminate.

For the AirLens streamer and the inputs on the DS v2, the galvanic isolation is built in. That's my conundrum at the moment. I'd really like to get the AirLens but, if I get the DS v2 down the road, I really wouldn't need the AirLens, as I could use any other streamer for a source and the DS v2 would clean it up. But given the cost....yeah, it probably won't happen for a while.