New CJ ART88 Preamp

[AnotherJohnson]

Boiler plate from typical CJ Owners Manual. See (c) particularly.

“Exclusions. The following are not covered under this warranty:
a) Units which have been damaged by misuse, abuse, or accident.
b) Units which have been modified, altered, or improperly repaired by anyone not specifically authorized by conrad- johnson design, inc.
c) Units not purchased from an authorized conrad-johnson dealer in the United States for use in the United States.
d) Normal wear
e) Incidental or consequential damages are not covered under this warranty. Some states do not allow the exclusion of incidental or consequential damages, so this exclusion may not apply to you.”

[admin]

This is NOT Matty’s fault.

100% correct. Not suggesting it as all. He is being totally screwed over by Audio Freaks. What I was implying was that Matty has not elevated the issue to the right people (ie contacting CJ about how he should proceed). I'm not trying to victim blame, rather the opposite, and have consistently recommended he be more forceful with Audio Freaks and contact CJ directly about repair options.

I don't think the expectation is that CJ would force Audio Freaks to correct the situation. But they would be able to offer advice to Matty on repair possibilities and it would be generally good for CJ head quarters to know how their dealers are treating the customers.

Perhaps my prior post came off as victim blaming but that was certainly not my intention. I think we all want Matty to have a good outcome and recognize that he got the short end of stick on this deal.

[AnotherJohnson]

This is NOT Matty’s fault.

100% correct. Not suggesting it as all. He is being totally screwed over by Audio Freaks. What I was implying was that Matty has not elevated the issue to the right people (ie contacting CJ about how he should proceed). I'm not trying to victim blame, rather the opposite, and have consistently recommended he be more forceful with Audio Freaks and contact CJ directly about repair options.

I don't think the expectation is that CJ would force Audio Freaks to correct the situation. But they would be able to offer advice to Matty on repair possibilities and it would be generally good for CJ head quarters to know how their dealers are treating the customers.

Perhaps my prior post came off as victim blaming but that was certainly not my intention. I think we all want Matty to have a good outcome and recognize that he got the short end of stick on this deal.

I think we can disagree. The “right people” are Audio Freaks. That’s clear.

If CJ were to get involved, it would be by supporting Audio Freaks, not Matty directly.

Proper chain is customer to dealer to importer to CJ.

If every foreign customer tries to bypass this chain and go directly to CJ, it creates a huge mess for CJ.

I’ve seen this play out with Linn, VPI, and others. Obvious CJ’s representative in the UK is Audio Freaks. If there are enough problems, CJ might rethink the relationship. But if they short circuit AF to deal with customers directly, it just opens a can of worms.

[AnotherJohnson]

FWIW, Matty could send it back to Fairfax at his own expense for direct pay repairs.

Round trip insured shipping by air would probably be at least a grand. A transformer is probably a couple of grand. The process would probably take about a month if the parts are in stock.

I’ve inquired of UK dealer friends who report that, outside of Audio Freaks, there are no good service options in the UK. Part of this is due to CJ’s policy of not providing parts or schematics to external service providers.

[admin]

I think we can disagree. The “right people” are Audio Freaks. That’s clear.

If CJ were to get involved, it would be by supporting Audio Freaks, not Matty directly.

Proper chain is customer to dealer to importer to CJ.

If every foreign customer tries to bypass this chain and go directly to CJ, it creates a huge mess for CJ.

I’ve seen this play out with Linn, VPI, and others. Obvious CJ’s representative in the UK is Audio Freaks. If there are enough problems, CJ might rethink the relationship. But if they short circuit AF to deal with customers directly, it just opens a can of worms.

But AJ, Matty already talked with Audio Freaks multiple times, and their response was "the hum is normal." A loud hum that worsens with hours of listening is not "normal" in my view. So where is he to go with his issue, other than CJ direclty, if Audio Freaks has been made aware and has decided that this is not something they will deal with?

[AnotherJohnson]

Item (c) in the boiler plate post above is there because in order to obtain cheaper goods, people would buy from a U.S. dealer and have the item shipped to their own country, bypassing the official importer.

Sometimes this game is referred to as the gray market. If you are a camera aficionado, you know that gray market goods are not supported by the official importer.

Matty did not do this. He is not in the gray market. But Audio Freaks seems to be stiff arming him on his request for support.

Honestly, if I were Matty, I’d probably replace the CJ gear with Linn, or Naim, or NAD, or Rotel, or Cambridge… and cut my losses.

[AnotherJohnson]

But AJ, Matty already talked with Audio Freaks multiple times, and their response was "the hum is normal." A loud hum that worsens with hours of listening is not "normal" in my view. So where is he to go with his issue, other than CJ direclty, if Audio Freaks has been made aware and has decided that this is not something they will deal with?

His legal recourse is to take it up with whatever claims can be made through UK laws.

CJ has no obligation. He can complain to CJ to make them aware of AF’s poor representation… if he wants to bother.

[whnay1]

I really like this forum. Great people on it.

If you are referring to transformer noise that makes more sense. Being old I didn't read the post correctly.

Transformer can physically hum and that would be heat related so this makes sense.

Hum or ground loop issues usually are evident as soon as they amps are turned on.

I would definitely contact Jeff at CJ to see what if anything can be done.

Take care and have a safe Holiday Season.

Bill

[Big Dog RJ]

That's correct! The chain of purchase to the chain of support, which Matty has followed- customer- dealer/importer- CJ HQ. The whole damn issue is the dealer/importer claims nothing's wrong, and the hum is "absolutely normal" and to quote again, AF claims that "all highend gear hums & there's no highend gear that doesn't hum"... so he's not bugding one bit from this premise.

In which case, why I suggested to humble Matty, to contact Jeff or someone at CJ service and discuss the symptoms, for crying out loud! Like I said, too humble...far too humble.

Another important thing worth noting: *when both units were tested out at AF, Mr. B didn't leave the ARTsa on for several hrs, rather it was just a short test* During this short test, Mr B powered up the ARTsa without any load, speakers not connected and then tested with load- speakers connected. On both occasions there was only a slight hum, very quiet and no excessive heat... so he turns to Matty and says, "see! Working perfectly all good" and you have abnormal hearing mate!

After having spent 30grand Sterling on pre & power gear, and it hums... and the dealer from where you paid very hard earned money... is not supporting you at all and also calls you abnormal... I would have burned the shop down by now.

However, that's me I will never tolerate this sort of issue with this kind of gear at this level! No way maaate!

We'll leave it in Matty's capable hands, I truly hope he gets the right support from the right people concerned. I also very truly hope that he reads our posts! They were meant to encourage him and give him some confidence in approaching Jeff...

At the end of the day, if someone buys such gear at this level, they should be really enjoying their music at the highest quality through their system. Not deal with hum issues and attitude problems from the dealer... what on earth is going on.

Cheers, RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

Certainly it seems as though Audio Freaks does not represent CJ well.

Maybe Matty would be willing to write a letter to JF to summarize his experience.

What you’ve described is just incredibly bogus.

The trouble is that there are other stories as well.

I just had a second dropout. It almost sounded like the music was sucked into a black hole and was repelled back out.

No extraneous noises from the refrigerator corner this time.

[admin]

A little bit back on topic to the ART88, I was reading the January issue of Stereophile and they actually have a 1/4 page "article" about the ART88. This is surprising as I have not seen one mention of CJ in Stereophile in the past few years. I was beginning to think there was some kind "no CJ" policy at Stereophile. I hope this is a start of a trend.

[AnotherJohnson]

Maybe they are trying to entice CJ to give them a review loaner.

It is often suggested thatCJ doesn’t get reviewed, but I guarantee that there are two sides to the story. The audio magazines are not like Consumer Reports in that they do not buy their review samples unless after the fact.

CJ takes a risk if they loan a sample out on a model that they’re selling at capacity anyway. CJ has its list of preferred reviewers, Tone for example. So do the others.

If the sales queue is steady, all a good review can do is put them in a bad back order situation. A bad review can dry up demand … both on new AND on the resale market.

JF is on record noting that their highest models are already their best sellers. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

[AnotherJohnson]

I was wondering if any of you have had these sort of issues and if so, what was wrong and how was it fixed... by CJ or another techie.

Matty unfortunately has done the exact opposite. Dragged things out with the wrong people who do not want to seem to fix the problems. What can I say?

This is NOT Matty’s fault.

The contractual agreement between the manufacturer and the foreign based importer is clear. Support falls to the in country importer, not to the manufacturer.

This is not unique to CJ. It is the common model.

In this case, blaming Matty is blaming the victim for the crime.

If CJ deserves any blame, and I do not think they do, it is for contracting with a bad importer.

The blame here is properly placed on Audio Freaks. They obviously have inadequate ability to diagnose or repair units that fail. Or else they’re just dishonest/disingenuous representatives.

FWIW, tube amp transformers fail when they’re run with no load. We already know that Audio Freaks have done this in Matty’s presence.

Getting CJ to knock AF into line would be hard. If AF makes good orders and pays their bills on time, it’s unlikely that there is any basis for severance.

My own data suggest that Matty may not be alone in experiencing bad customer service from AF. If he could get a few others to join a complaint against AF, he might have leverage.

On the other hand, who are we to judge Matty’s interest, or lack of interest in pursuing it? If the money is not critical to his existence, he may prefer the peace of walking away to the “exacerbation of the dark side” that comes from fighting a noncritical battle. It’s just stuff. Life is too short to focus on stuff. Matty may be following the path that works best for him.

As I’ve mulled over the solder defects and bad socket that were discovered in my LP275Ms, and as I’ve thought about how much aggravation, and mental and physical energy I‘ve invested over my 4+ years of ownership … and especially as I’ve thought of CJ’s continued assertions that hum is normal, their antenna explanation, and their recommendation to plug the whole system into one 15 amp outlet, I’ve wondered if perhaps we have been too hard on Audio Freaks.

Audio Freaks may be getting the same BS runaround that they are dishing up for Matty.

If hum is as common as CJ says (quoting, they said they field hum calls every day), they become inured to it. Rather than take every call seriously as a possible defect, they pitch the blanket single plug solution. No different ground planes, no ground loops. This covers a multitude of sins. It saves people shipping charges, and it will probably kill the hum, like a coat of rustoleum might cover rust. But like tooth decay, whatever was at the root of the problem remains undiscovered and lurks waiting to rear its head again.

I can’t exaggerate just how much better the REF 75 SE sounded compared to the LP275Ms here. Was this because they were better? Or was it because the LP275Ms had a bandaid on wounds that should have been dealt with on CJs bench under warranty in 2018? We’ll never know.

But Audio Freaks may not be at the root of Matty’s troubles. The troubles may be rooted on this side of the big pond.

As usual, YMMV.

I’ve probably said too much. I don’t want to be negative, at least not all the time.

The performance of the Levinson 5805, and the performances of the LS28 and REF 75SE were truly eye/ear opening here.

I wish CJ well even as I wish CJ had a large enough staff to work on these problems.

[Coppy]

Gentlemen,
The HI-FI+ review of the ART88 is now available in the January issue for on line subscribers.
Enjoy,
Bob

[Big Dog RJ]

Uh?...

[Coppy]

Big Dog... why the ? HiFi+ Magazine in Britain.

Anyway, probably will be selling my GAT1 for a reasonable price if anyone is interested. If I can swing an ART88. I'll look for the sales section of this web blog to list it properly.

Bob

[Big Dog RJ]

Ah! Yes, of course! Hi Fi + in UK. Sorry mate, must have been tired after a long workout of a day... sometimes I forget to kiss the wifey goodnight and all hell breaks loose the next morning.

Sounds like a good plan Bob (Coppy), if you can sell the GAT at a fairly reasonable price, that should work out. Only thing is the ART88 is quite a far margin above price wise, so you'll still have to meet the gap. I'm sure you'll find a way though.

BTW, real nice gear you have there, TEA1b, ART27A, Wilson speakers, DCS Bartok and Valhalla 2 cables, that's SOTA!
In a set up like this, I'm sure the Art88 will be well worth it!

Good stuff Bob, let us know how it goes.
Cheers, RJ

[admin]

Coppy (Bob),
I can see why you want to go for the ART88's. Your gear is top notch and the next step in the evolution is the best of the best. Yes, it's a premium, but by the price tag of your current gear seems like a doable investment. If you have the funds and want the absolute best sound possible, the ART88's is where I would be going if I were in your shoes. A little jealous in all honesty!

Let us know what you decide.

[whnay1]

I have heard the ART88 in six different environments and in each it represented a huge improvement over previous CJ preamps.

[ds-audio18]

Hi Bill,
How long does the ART88 need for break-in in your experience? Did you hear major changes during break-in or did it sound about ready right out of the box?
Thanks!