Is CJ still in business?

[tonye]

Quick question... what is the difference between the ET3 and ET6?

Is it that great? I've looking into making an offer into an ET3 that I can ship to CJ to upgrade to do the full SE upgrade plus maintenance/repairs as needed and new tubes. That ET3 still has a year left on the warranty.

There's an online price for a new ET6SE line stage at $5750.

There's also an ET3 line stage for a lot less.... so that would require $1500 more for the SE upgrade. I might be able to get it done for just over $3000 and in a way I can hide it from my wife. The ET6SE can not be hidden. I'd catch hell if I tried to slip it around it.

Do you know what the factory will charge to install the phono stage? Not that I really need it, although my PV9 has a very good one and I got the Pearl 2 which punches way above it head ( DIY pricing is simply different ).

In essence, the new ET6SE will cost twice than a used, not so old, upgraded at the factory ET3SE. The money difference will go towards a new amplifier!

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes that's a good point comparing the prices on both ET preamps. Between the two, and I've owned the ET3SE and auditioned the ET6, comparing side by side, I/ we could handle tell the difference. We had to concentrate really hard and play certain tracks over to properly ascertain the improvement if any. At the end though, it seems like the ET6 has slightly more control in the LF's... and holds itself together quite well on loud transients and dynamics. Other than absolutely no difference between both SE versions.

Compare the ET3/ ET6 to the ET7S2 or GATS2, that's where the difference takes place and it's quite noticeable. If I were looking at either of these preamps and had the finances I'd consider the ET3SE. If I could hold off for a while and save up bit more, I'd settle for an ET7S2 or the GAT and call it a day.

The system it was running on, comprised of the Classic 120SE driving Quad ESL 2912's. The source was a McCormack UDP1 partnered with a Weiss DAC. All cables & interconnects were a full Nordost loom that comprised of Frey2 interconnects and Tyr2 speaker cables. So this was certainly not entry level but right up there. Overall presentation was tops!

Hope that helps, cheers RJ

[tonye]

I haven't started to look at a "calling the day" preamp. Just addressing the part of my system that has been constant for 30 years ( OK with upgrades and maintenance ).

This system has a number of DIY units. Phono stage is an uber built Pearl 2. Amps are FW F4, F5 and SIT-3 (SissySIT v42). Aleph 2 and 5 monos. Plus an Audio Research D70-II. Speakers are Magnepan 1.7 and Audio Note SP AN-L/LX. Woofers are Entec MX-5. Sources are (1) my LP12, (2) an streaming Android/Burson DAC with upgraded opamps and (3) and a digital "tape deck" with a PC and an RME ADI2 FS R. Cabling is MIT, Audioquest, Kimber (Maggies) and Canare (Audio Notes). Power cords are big, plain cords and the power is supplied by two 20 amp home runs, one for digital, the other for analog. The AC is clean - I've measured it- so there is no need for filters or regenerators.

I might get a pair of Harbeth 30.1 or a suitable Spendor/Rodgers, perhaps an isobaric Totem Signature. The LP12 is, of course, a wonderful money pit. I agree with Linn about the importance of the front end in the whole system. Plus the more powerful version of the SIT and a 2nd F4 and, and... perhaps a passive TVC with balanced circuitry. This? (https://www.thebespokeaudiocompany.com/our-product)

This is an extremely musical system with very natural midrange, silky-extended treble and deep-fast-accurate bass. The sound is non fatiguing, accurate, dynamic (see below), realistic and has an extremely low noise. I have had two other pairs of ears, who are in the business, sit down to listen and we've enjoyed the music. The only recommendation has been to get a Lingo 4 and an Ortofon Cadenza MC Black... only after that, consider the Ekos and Keel.

LOUD? Well, it won't play to 11. But it will play the Sex Pistols or Mahler louder than you'd hear in real life ( well, not the Sex Pistols, but who, in their real mind, wants to experience the Sex Pistols at 11?). To me, this is not a limitation because I love the way the system projects a great facsimile of the performance, row B for the Maggies and row M for the ANs. I no longer play at ear splitting levels. Think "garage band", that's as lous as it plays.

I thought about getting the phono stage for the ET3 but then I see it has limited adjustments... gain is fixed (hi or lo) and impedance is only 200 ohms? The PV9 is set quite nicely set up for MC at 100 ohms and enough gain for a 0.5mV cartridge. The Pearl 2 can do anything....gain, capacitance, resistance, etc... fully adjustable with a $1000 BOM of state of the art components and an otherwise very simple circuit - and separate power supply with filtering up the ying and yang. So I don't think I want the ET phono stage, even as a collector - for completeness.

LIke I noted earlier, I am not looking at calling it a day. I would if CJ made a balanced output preamp, but they don't. So, I'm looking at making a luxury purchase. I love the way the PV9 sounds and combined with my amps it makes a very, VERY good sound. I have replaced it with the B1 and B1K buffers and sure the sound "cleans up" just a little, but I find that whatever distortions the PV9 adds actually make the presentation more realistic.

My "calling it the day" might be the BA3 balanced preamp... or not. I've heard lots of pros and cons, some people love it, some don't. But they all agree it makes a great front end for the F4 amp... so that might end up either being The End or might just be a side note with a pair of bridged F4s.

Otherwise... there is a pair of F5Tv3 amps that might be on sale....

Sorry to rant, but there are so many variables. And the amp racks are full.

Bottom line... will the ET3SE take away the magic of the PV9 with its Teflon caps? I'm not looking for what passes as accuracy in the current High End... for this tubed preamp, I'm looking.. hmm... I don't know... just a bit more of that CJ magic. The remote, ahem!, might be handy.. or not... something else to lose. But for sure, I'm looking at the SE level, ONLY. I'm convinced about the value of the teflon caps.

[AnotherJohnson]

From the CJ vintage site:

Those who wish to take the performance to yet a higher level will be thrilled by the availability of an upgraded “SE” version. The ET3SE boasts CJD Teflon capacitors in critical circuit applications, dozens of upgraded metal foil resistors (including ALL resistors in the stepped attenuator level control), upgraded machined input/output connectors, and even an upgrade AC mains line-cord.

[tonye]

So the ET3 to ET3SE is more than just the teflon caps.... let me see what CJ says about a "full upgrade"... I just sent Jasmine a follow up email... let's see what she comes up with...

In the meantime...

...The seller also has a Premier 14 preamp... no teflon caps.

What do you think? Premier 14 ( with no upgrade path ) or the ET3 "SE" ( after getting the ET3 upgraded at the factory ) or bite the bullet and wait for a full ET3SE to hit the used market?

Mind you, my current PV9 "SE" sounds really good. I'm concerned the Premier 14 might be a step back... And I'm in no real hurry.

PS- Heck, we just spent 1000 bucks on a new freezer for the garage... I know, I know, but 1000 here, a 1000 there and suddenly the money adds up! And my wife has the notion that it is OUR money... so I shouldn't be spending it all by myself.

[admin]

The added benefit of the ET3 upgraded to the SE edition at the factory is that the base unit gets a good look over. Also, the upgraded components are newer so their life expectancy should be that much longer (half a decade is still have a decade).

As for the money issue. I believe that a "happy wife is a happy life." With that being said there should be a budget for your hobbies (as well as hers). That is also part of happiness.

[tonye]

Yes, I'd expect the factory to do a look over the whole unit... that's what they did when I shipped my PV9. They replaced some diodes and a couple of caps besides installing the teflon caps... They even included a brand new box!

On the subject of the ET3 to ET3SE upgrade: this is what Jasmine wrote:

Hello Tony,

The current SE upgrade includes Teflon capacitors and vishay resistors in the audio and power supply circuit, it does NOT include RCA input/output connectors.

Thank you,

Jasmine

I made an offer to the seller... haven't heard from him yet.

BTW: this is also what I read from someone else:

They had an IT issue when their website was updated. It pointed to the wrong internal email address. I discovered that for them.

That would explain why they were impossible to get a hold of. It still doesn't excuse not picking up the phone or having an answering machine on it. It also points out to some truly crappy IT work.

++

Yes, I also believe the idea of a happy wife is a happy life. My wife does the bills... anything under 600 bucks is under the radar... up to 1000 and she'll ask... over a 1000 I'd better tell her ahead of time. My hobby is my audio, that's where I spend my money... so when I go on a DIY project, which usually takes a few months and can get expensive (*), I make it so the payments are always in tranches at no more than 800 bucks per payment. Sometimes, like when it's a purchase and there's no way to hide the total, I'll involve her in it. Most audiophiles are interesting people.... so we drove to San Diego once to pick up the Maggies and met a very nice couple at their beach home... had a great conversation and great coffee... or the guy who fixed all of my vintage stuff ( cost a bunch ).. we drove a couple of times by and she met him... or we went to LA to the place where they did the maintenance on my tube amp and old speakers...

Notice that for ET3SE it will be two payments... one for the ET3 and another one for the upgrade. Done over a couple of months and the number comes in much lower. There is some real method to my madness.

(*) Another side about DIY, is that it costs a lot less in money, even as my time expenditure is sky high. If I were to price my time into it, the cost would be as high as buying a consumer product, but I enjoy it as a hobby and my wife doesn't see the my time as a ledger entry.

[tonye]

Well... good news.

(1) I made a deal for the used ET3.....
(2) The factory is replying to the webform. Jasmine mentioned it will take 6 to 8 weeks to do the upgrade. Fine with me.

So, hopefully sometime in August I'll have my upgraded preamp.

Now... what will I do with the PV9 and the two sets of tubes?

[admin]

Very nice. Should be a great upgrade. Let us know what you think when you get it back and able to get a few hours of listening in. I think you are going to be very happy.

[tonye]

I will. I'll get the plain ET first... will likely plug it in just to make sure it works... but then it will turn around and go into the factory.

So, I will hold up any listening until then.

In the meantime, there is a nice PC board in the DIY store to do the SE (single ended) to balanced gain. It looks very nice so the plan is to go that route. They even have a tube version. We'll see. That will allow me to keep my current preamps ( all single ended ) while letting me play with the amps.

I'm thinking I ought to redo my office set up.. and bring in the PV9 into it. We'll see...

On thing about the ET3 though, it looks like it only has a single set of outputs -after the volume. That means I'll have to run splitters so I can drive both the main amps and the woofer crossovers. I got the Monster and Audioquest splitters... but that surprised me since the PV9 has two sets of outputs and that makes my life much easier.

EDIT: Actually, Jasmine wrote 4 to 6 weeks, not 6 to 8...

[admin]

I would maybe just spend a few days listening to the standard ET3. That way, when you get the SE version back you have a baseline comparison.

Doesn't the ET3 have 3 outputs? Or is it just one that is volume controlled?

[tonye]

Hmm... I really don't know. The instructions on line were not all that clear.

There is a Theather OUT, in addition to the main out. The owner's manual states:

".. When THEATER is selected, the level controls are set and locked to unity gain. Level and balance control are then accomplished via your surround sound processor..."

Does this mean that if THEATER is not selected these outputs are then a second set of volume controlled outputs?

Another weird thing... it has a TAPE input... but no TAPE output. It says to use the EPL for a tape recorder. It is a weird beast... but then so is the PV9. If you select TAPE as input and then hit the monitor you get feedback. But the PV9 has inputs for two tape decks... that is actually handy since I run a dedicated AD/DAC as a "digital tape recorder" and sometimes I use the second TAPE as a loop for playing around with stuff.

Whoever said CJ ran with the crowd? They do have their idiosyncrasies.

+++
Oh yes, I do intend to hook it up for a few days to make sure it works well. I won't be too critical of it knowing how much of an upgrade those teflon caps are. This time around with two CJ preamps, I will likely burn in the ET3 post SE by itself on a different system. Ed said 400 hours.. and he was right.

[admin]

Sounds like theater out is a line level output only. ELP, not sure? The easiest way will be just to test them when you have the unit.

[tonye]

Now. the hard part.. Part 1. Waiting for G̶o̶d̶o̶t̶ the ET3 to cross country...

[Joe Appierto]

Hopefully, unlike the character Godot, the unit does arrive and even better, sooner rather than later.

Keep positive.

[tonye]

BTW, I was informed -by a dealer- that the factory can modify the ET3 to add a second set of main outputs.... I need to email Jasmine about it.

I do have those fancy Audioquest and Monster Cable "RCA male to two RCA female - hard assembly" gizmos.... but I'd rather keep the interface between preamp and amps to the bare minimum.

Always positive... you gotta be positive when dealing with UPS. Did you know they can destroy components.... have you ever seen a woofer basket broken by shear forces... how can UPS do that? How about bent 2" cooling fins without the box showing any signs of untoward stress?

UPS can do it.

At least, it won't be like FedEx... I live in SoCal... twice they've lost my stuff in Canada... shipped from the US East Coast to the middle of Canada... lost, like "take off eh? hoser!" if you asked... and then, both times, out of the blue, they appeared at my front door, unscathed, on a Sunday... with no warning!

[tonye]

Well, things are moving well. Jasmine is replying, so I got the form.

The preamp is making its way out West... from VA no less (*).... once I make sure it works fine then I'll ship it back to VA... and have them do the work.

I wonder if its worthwhile getting a phono card installed. I really don't need one and I'm not quite sure either will work well with the Grado Master 2... it's a strange beast... 47K Moving Iron with 1mV output.

I've thought of spending the money just to be "complete" because the collector side of me likes to see completeness. But I really don't need it.. the DIY Pearl 2 has way more options than any one will ever need... and the quality is beyond what CJ an offer at their price point.

Oh well.... let's just hope I get my ET3SE all done by late July.

I bought the preamp from a dealer who is four miles from the factory and knows them since the very start.. he offered to take the preamp to the factory for me but I figured it'd be better if I had a chance to verify the purchase and get used to the "normal" sound. To me, it's worth the extra 300 bucks or so ( shipping costs ) to separate the deals by perfecting the first purchase.

You know what's really cool? Now, I'm planning on using the PV9 in my office. Hmm... speakers are Acoustic Energy AE1s... hmm... maybe use a Nuforce HDP4 as USB DAC... amp... amp... hmm... CJ MF2100? ARC D70MkII? FW F5? Whatever I do, I'm gonna have to make some room...

I'm sure glad Jasmine is replying. With her, I found out that very specific questions are important. Don't ask.. "how about? " type of questions.

[tonye]

So, for the last two weeks or so I've been ENJOYING the ET3. I haven't played with the tape monitor... just hooked up the phono stage, the DAC and a big power cable. ( a 15A cable is way overkill, but what the heck? ).

As it stands the preamp is very different from the PV9. Mind you, I need to replace the tubes in the PV9... they've been sitting there... and, if you remember, my PV9 has the full Teflon cap upgrade.

I'd say that the ET3 is "faster" on the notes. Definitely not as tubey but not solid state at all either. Perhaps it's the simpler circuit that makes the difference? I think the ET3 is more neutral sounding than the PV9. ( Remember, I'm only comparing the line stage sections ). The soundstage is a little deeper and sharper: the location of the instruments is pinpoint whereas the old PV9 is a bit fuzzier. Perhaps more 2nd order harmonic on the old preamp? Consequently, the separation of voices and instruments is also much better... I can hear the recording more clearly... backing vocals, overdubs.... the bad side is that bad recordings don't sound all that great... the PV9 is much more forgiving of bad recordings than the ET3.

So far...

Anyhow, I'm not going to compare them until I get the ET3SE upgrade and the new tubes installed and everything is broken in.

This week I plan to ship the ET3 to the factory and then we'll go on vacation ( Yay!!! ) so hopefully by late July or so I'll get it back. So I think it will be some time in August/September than I can start to compare them. In any event, this is gonna be a massive upgrade for my office system (... yep.. the PV9 is going there ).

Ergonomics, though, I prefer the volume knob and I like the balance control. But sound wise the "basic" ET3 line stage does sound very good.

It "just sounds right"... for sure. A really good upgrade to the system -so far. I'm listening to a lot of music.

[admin]

Very nice. I agree, the ET3 should be a significant upgrade to the PV9. It should also be more reliable as it's a newer unit.

[tonye]

Well, they're back to their old crappy customer service routine.

I emailed yesterday to make sure it is OK to ship the preamp to do the work. No reply yet.... OK... I noted my schedule... I'm going on vacation at the end of the week... I got to ship now ( I couldn't ship last week since I was in a business trip ).

Today, I figured I'd call. 703-698-8581. To make sure the financial arrangements are taken care of... credit card, final numbers, etc.... take care of this before I ship the preamp and I go on vacation.

Sure enough... it rings six times, a voice comes on and tells me to use the webmail form and hangs up on me.

No way to leave a voice message.

Now, I know that they do the upgrade to the ET3 because they told me so and sent me the contact form to fill.

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?

Don't they want my money?

I think this is gonna be my last CJ product... screw this. It's the Golden Rule.. and I have the money.

I don't believe anyone gets though. Do they have some secret list of phone numbers they allow and the rest of us get stuck in Customer Service Hell?