Martin Logan ESL speakers

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roberto
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Re: Martin Logan ESL speakers

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AnotherJohnson wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:49 am
roberto wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:21 pm Listening the CLXs, I forget that I am listening a pair of speakers, and my mind goes to the place where they are playing.
I think most seasoned listeners feel this way about their speakers.

Once I’ve done my best at tweaking the position of speakers and listener, in future sessions, I plunk myself down, close my eyes, and enjoy. Maybe this has as much to do with one’s inner peace as it has to do with realism.

If I had bought $30000 speakers, I would be sorely disappointed if they did not transport me to a new level.
Yes AJ.

Totally disappointed, and there are some costing much more, that no matter what you do, they don't provide this listener-musicians communication. As an example, I have a dear friend that owns a pair of Sonus Faber Amati. The room is big enough and great for big speakers. No matter what you do, moving them back and forth, tilting them, you name it, and you get a wide stage, but a pancake thick. You change the speaker's cables, and the interconnect cables too, a he has Conrad Johnson and Audio Research gear. All electronics exhibit about the same. Don't get me wrong, the overall sound is OK, but for a speakers like this, my ears want more. The treble section is too soft, and lack to my ears, that dynamic that other Sonus Faber models have. This is my appreciation. My ears have another reference, which I do believe are much happier.

Here is where my language barrier makes me to have a bad express of what I am trying to say. Can you call the brands of the strings used in a Spanish guitar? Can you call the type of a Spanish guitar model? There are Thomas Humphray, made in the USA, Ramirez, Vilaplana, Cordoba, Takamine, etc, ...on today days, there are great Luthiers available, giving a great fine woods and work of art classical guitars. These guitars exhibit a distinguish characteristic tones, and this tones are possible at the recordings. Strings like Savarez, La Bella, D'Addario, Augustine to name a few, and all of them have a particular tone too. There are different tensions available, and this makes a difference. Your speakers should resolve this. Mines do that.

Happy listening!
Last edited by roberto on Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Martin Logan ESL speakers

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I have never been a fan of the Sonus Faber line, but reviewers seem to like them. Same with Wilson’s. They never sound to me (in the showroom) like I would pay what they cost.

I have to say though that your ears must really be tuned in.

I can hear the guitarists nails and can speculate on whether or not they were properly prepped.

But in the world outside of classical guitars, we can make a guitar sound like anything from a motorboat to a musical saw. Jack Wilkins used to often play a telecaster and make it sound like an L5 strung with LaBella flat wounds.

It is gratifying to hear the subtle nuances introduced by an excellent guitarist. High resolving power does make it easier.

My MF2550SE sold in 6 hours on Audiogon. So my temptation to set up a fourth system has passed.

Now I’ve got the SP20 listed. That’s a great preamp if you like a high gain resident phono section (58dB). You can adjust the load with the remote control. It’s really nice. Edit: it sold in two days on Audiogon.

Will I ever buy the CLX? Heck, I can’t even get a demo. And the fashion statement they make in a non dedicated space is just too “over the top.” So probably no.

But I will still enjoy the gushing love shown by the happy owners. 🤗
Last edited by AnotherJohnson on Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
It’s just stuff. I like mine. I hope you like yours. I probably like yours too.
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Re: Martin Logan ESL speakers

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Hahahaha AJ,

You are too much!. All I can say is this: you do not know what you are missing!!!, and let your ears decide. Do your best! Come and have fun with mines. Bring a flash drive with your favourite music and musicians. Here, I promise to you, that you will get hooked with them...and easily.

My dad was a car lover. He liked to drive the smooth suspension by Mercedes Benz. Also, he liked the french cars too. He had the same car that The Mentalist Patrick Jane had. He told me, if you want to know the difference between these two brands, you have to drive them and feel the behaviour...wise thought

Happy listening!
ML CLX BF-210 Stage X Motion 4. CJ 120SE amp ET7V2 pre, Holo May Kte Dac. Mac Pro. Power Cond. BPT Signature+ 3.5, Gaia II Feet. USB Lush^V3. Nordost SPM IC and Spk. Shun Mook, BCanto CD2 CD3. Linn LP-12/Unitrack tonearm/Denon DL103R MC.
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Re: Martin Logan ESL speakers

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I may have to come to Costa Rica to get a demo. It may be the closest place. 🙉🙈🙊

Since Best Buy took over Magnolia and got the ML dealership for much of the US, and since they don’t have anything but a pretend capability to give a demo, and since they don’t stock the Masterpiece line, it is hard to find a dealer for a real demo.

I’ll look forward to hearing them at your house. 😁
It’s just stuff. I like mine. I hope you like yours. I probably like yours too.
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Re: Martin Logan ESL speakers

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Any time, AJ, my system is your system!

I wish to you a very happy listening and a big hug from Costa Rica,
ML CLX BF-210 Stage X Motion 4. CJ 120SE amp ET7V2 pre, Holo May Kte Dac. Mac Pro. Power Cond. BPT Signature+ 3.5, Gaia II Feet. USB Lush^V3. Nordost SPM IC and Spk. Shun Mook, BCanto CD2 CD3. Linn LP-12/Unitrack tonearm/Denon DL103R MC.
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Re: Martin Logan ESL speakers

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:D Chicos,
Do you know what? It is so marvellous to make friends and talk over of what we love the most! Music makes my life happier! And no matter what type of system and speakers you use, it is a magical trip to listen to it every day.

Happy listening! :P
ML CLX BF-210 Stage X Motion 4. CJ 120SE amp ET7V2 pre, Holo May Kte Dac. Mac Pro. Power Cond. BPT Signature+ 3.5, Gaia II Feet. USB Lush^V3. Nordost SPM IC and Spk. Shun Mook, BCanto CD2 CD3. Linn LP-12/Unitrack tonearm/Denon DL103R MC.
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Re: Martin Logan ESL speakers

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Well, I may not be in the queue for the CLX Arts, but my seller’s remorse over letting my BF210 has been assuaged. I have ordered one from an Audiogon seller that I’ve dealt with before.

What will I do with it? First stop is to see how it matches up with the F228Bes. Second is to pair it with the M126Bes. Should be fun ... and if I ever do get another pair of ML ESLs, I’ll be ready. 😉
It’s just stuff. I like mine. I hope you like yours. I probably like yours too.
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Re: Martin Logan ESL speakers

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Let us know what you think of the new setup. You never know what the future holds, and ML will be there when you are ready! :)
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Re: Martin Logan ESL speakers

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I asked CJ today about what they use to evaluate their designs. I said "I won't tell," but this was answered with "It's OK to tell. We have it on our FaceBook page." I don't use FaceBook, so I did not know. Maybe you folks already know.

I was told that they use two speakers ... the Zellaton Reference Mk II which cost something like $180k per pair, and the Wilson Sasha (or possibly it was Sophia ... Wilson has both) as a lower level but recognized excellent speaker. The Zellatons are brought into the US by CJ's Manhattan dealer, Audioarts. https://www.audioartsnyc.com/zellaton

I was at the nearby dealer who stocks a fair amount of high end gear today, and we were listening to the the Marantz SA-KI SACD player through Levinson electronics and Wilson and Revel speakers.

It was the best dealership demo I've had of anything from Wilson, and I started to get a hint at why folks like them so well. The ones I listened to were in the middle of the line, i.e. $57k/pair and $109k/pair. Also listened to the new F328 Be (msrp is $16k) and the old Studio 2 (msrp is $17k).

Tonight we are at the house with the lesser audio system. I'm listening to Bjoern Eidsvaag's Hittil og littil on a CD released by Petroleum Records in 2000. The language appears to be Ny Norsk, a bit harder for me than Dano Norwegian.

In any event, it sounds great on this modest system.

As my friend the salesman and I were killing time this afternoon, there were several things that came up about in-store demos. For example, although this was the best they've done by the Wilsons in a demo for me, he said that it would be easy to improve on. He pointed out that there had been minimal effort to optimize the speaker and seat location. Also the speakers themselves were on the rollers instead of the spikes. And we had listened with the grill cloths on rather than off, although I think this helped smooth them out. The Studio 2s also had their grill cloths, but the 328 Bes did not. They were probably the most forward sound of the three.

I was really impressed by all three speakers with the Ruby SACD and the Levinson electronics. All three did different things best, but they also did all things well. I could happily live with any of them ... but as I sit here tonight, I am also happily living with the lowly F208s in this system, and enjoying them very much.
Last edited by AnotherJohnson on Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Martin Logan ESL speakers

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Well, my ears have made an evolution. I can't stand a tweeter. Just play any music with cymbals at a normal listening level, or bring down a little bit the volume and put your ears very close to the tweeter. That's distortion is what you hear. Bring your ears to a stat panel and the sound is clean, transparent, no distortion at all.
I can not tell the many things that I hear with the planar speakers. Cone speakers exaggerate to me, or better say, to my ears, the overall sound. Please understand that this is my liking, and obviously is different that many of you. And the most important thing, you too enjoy the musician(s) playing for you as I do with my system.
It is good to have different options and different type of quality sound. So, I wish to you a very

Happy listening!
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Re: Martin Logan ESL speakers

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I wonder if you have some other issue in play, like an interconnect that could be improved on. It seems rash to dismiss all tweeters. Of course since you’ve got the CLX Arts dialed in, you have no incentive to go looking.

I wonder if there is a crossover anomaly that you hear. Crossovers are often problematic.

Or possibly an artifact of streaming. Or maybe an artifact of tweaks that help in other parts of the spectrum.

I am quite sensitive to authenticity of sound, particularly transients. I judge most systems by how natural they produce dynamic tones. Of course this is subjective... but so is enjoyment in general.

I think the ML designs really sound good, but so do many other designs. This is why HP wanted an Absolute reference ... which is pretty much impossible to define. Psycho-Acoustics is calling. He wants his misheard treble back. 😉
It’s just stuff. I like mine. I hope you like yours. I probably like yours too.
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Re: Martin Logan ESL speakers

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Yes, that's about right AJ.

Zellaton speakers they are! I've heard these things before, and I must say they are right up there with the top dogs. Similar category to- Wilson's, Rockport, YG Acoustics, Genesis Advanced Tech, Gryphon Pendragon and so on. These are big toys for the big boys... and they just about can reproduce anything. They better be able to do that when considering this type of spend for hifi.

Having heard all of these mighty greats, for whatever reason and purity to the original recording, I just prefer full range stats. Having heard extensively the Alsyvox ribbons, which start at 80grand for their entry level panels, upto 220grand for their top of the line, which is a multi-panel ribbon design, similar to maggies MG30.7, is just super cool. Then we have my favourites of all time, the ML Statements Evo-II driven by Dan D's Relentless monoblocks (200grand just for amplifiers...) and then we have the Gryphon Pendragon or the original Arnie Nudell Infinity IRSV system that still reproduces a highly coloured but legendary sound, and the top dog list goes on...

However, just like you mentioned at the end of the day, we head back to our humble homes, put on our favourite tracks on our humble systems and there it is! A fine level of musicality that we've put together throughout the years and achieved a sense of realism. We enjoy it to the fullest and ought to be content! That's all that matters.

CJ's NY dealer downtown Manhattan, pays a massive rent to occupy that space. So Zellaton or not, occupying prime property only deserves the best elements, I guess CJ is one of those fine elements, and it's certainly nice to know that we all own CJ gear in one form or the other.

Cheers mate, and enjoy those tunes!

BTW, the last time I used my Facebook account was in 2008, since then I've forgotten my password, so never bothered. I reckon CJO is far better, something we can all seriously relate to. FB! Why bother!

Cheers, RJ
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Re: Martin Logan ESL speakers

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The BF210 showed up late yesterday. I had time to unpack it, but not to install it. That will have to wait until tomorrow.

At 96 pounds, it’s challenging to move into position. After the discussion above, I plan to try both line level and speaker level inputs.
It’s just stuff. I like mine. I hope you like yours. I probably like yours too.
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Re: Martin Logan ESL speakers

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AnotherJohnson wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:41 pm The BF210 showed up late yesterday. I had time to unpack it, but not to install it. That will have to wait until tomorrow.

At 96 pounds, it’s challenging to move into position. After the discussion above, I plan to try both line level and speaker level inputs.
Congrats with your new sub, AJ. Good product! This sub can be matched (I have it too) with the CLXs...the blend is like it is not there, but you can sense it is. The sub should not be hear it...should be feel it is there.

Happy listening!
ML CLX BF-210 Stage X Motion 4. CJ 120SE amp ET7V2 pre, Holo May Kte Dac. Mac Pro. Power Cond. BPT Signature+ 3.5, Gaia II Feet. USB Lush^V3. Nordost SPM IC and Spk. Shun Mook, BCanto CD2 CD3. Linn LP-12/Unitrack tonearm/Denon DL103R MC.
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Re: Martin Logan ESL speakers

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Yes, I enjoyed my old BF210. I wish I’d never sold it.

It really made the Theos based system.

I am going to try to match it to my F228Bes. I was lucky to find this one at The Music Room in Erie, Colorado. The price was very fair and they shipped quickly. Ironically TMR is the company that bought my Theos and that transaction was excellent too.
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Re: Martin Logan ESL speakers

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AnotherJohnson wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:00 pm Yes, I enjoyed my old BF210. I wish I’d never sold it.

It really made the Theos based system.

I am going to try to match it to my F228Bes. I was lucky to find this one at The Music Room in Erie, Colorado. The price was very fair and they shipped quickly. Ironically TMR is the company that bought my Theos and that transaction was excellent too.
You are a lucky musician!!! Again, congratulations and enjoy it! I do know that you will meneage to set them right!
Happy listening!
ML CLX BF-210 Stage X Motion 4. CJ 120SE amp ET7V2 pre, Holo May Kte Dac. Mac Pro. Power Cond. BPT Signature+ 3.5, Gaia II Feet. USB Lush^V3. Nordost SPM IC and Spk. Shun Mook, BCanto CD2 CD3. Linn LP-12/Unitrack tonearm/Denon DL103R MC.
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Re: Martin Logan ESL speakers

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Interesting, at least to me, is that they appear to have updatable software that can be obtained for free by downloading from the ML site. I am going to try this.

My old BF210 was cherry. The new “used” one is black ash. Otherwise all controls and functionality appear to be the same.

In the old manual they used the Theos as the example for dialing in the settings, which made it very easy. The Theos is no longer made, so they’ve removed this.

They are not ARC ready, but if you could find one, the PBK could be used.

Edit: it turns out that ARC Genesis can be used, and you can do this with the PBK microphone.

I’d forgotten the sweep mode for identifying room issues. I’ll try that too. We’ll be back there tonight so there will be plenty to do tomorrow.
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Re: Martin Logan ESL speakers

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Hola AJ,

Did you like your new toy? I do believe that it blended beautiful with your speakers F228Bes. Tell us your findings!
I am also a BF-210 user. It is a fantastic sub!. I do know that you had it previously.

Happy listening!
ML CLX BF-210 Stage X Motion 4. CJ 120SE amp ET7V2 pre, Holo May Kte Dac. Mac Pro. Power Cond. BPT Signature+ 3.5, Gaia II Feet. USB Lush^V3. Nordost SPM IC and Spk. Shun Mook, BCanto CD2 CD3. Linn LP-12/Unitrack tonearm/Denon DL103R MC.
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Re: Martin Logan ESL speakers

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Yes, I started another thread to try to reduce my blame for high jacking this one. 😉

It really is a superb sub ... very versatile.
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Re: Martin Logan ESL speakers

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FWIW: The current President of Martin Logan says

1. If they had CLX Arts in inventory, they would send one for audition. But they build them to order, and there are none to send.

2. There is a pair for audition at LMC Home Entertainment in Scottsdale, AZ. That’s probably closer to Tennessee than Costa Rica.

So ... CLX Arts, as Bear surmised, appear to be bought based on Roberto’s, RJ’s, or others’ recommendations. Getting to hear them before purchase appears to be an option for those willing or able to travel.

LMC HE has a lot of great stuff on demo, including Monoliths I think. And many other brands too. So it could be a destination once travel restrictions are lifted.
It’s just stuff. I like mine. I hope you like yours. I probably like yours too.
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